Tazed

[molsen]

He said he wanted to ask a question. Instead, he starts with all this "conspiracy" crap and keeps on after he is asked to step down. He wasn't asking a question, and if he planned to he was going the long way around the mountain.

you're letting your own political biases get in the way here. what you call a "conspiracy" was him just citing a source and asking questions that related to that. it is a thoughtful thing to do instead of saying "what do you think of that one book?" he absolutely DID ask a question and had one or two more to ask. he clearly said that.

Free speech is entitled to all, but that was not a public forum. Kerry was there to speak and take questions. the dude was trying to take the floor and steer the discussion onto something else.

that's b.s. he was asking a POINTED QUESTION. what was he trying to steer it into? god forbid he asks something that's not the usual mainstream fluff for which the politician has a preplanned answer for. christ, trotter... dont' you get that? again, i think you're letting your political biases cloud your judgement here.

Society is based on rules and laws. If these rules and laws are ignored, society ceases and anarchy begins. I've seen enough anarchy in my lifetime already. We don't need any more.

wtf? now you're mentioning anarchy? you'd fit right in with that police force, i think. the only rules that were broken were by the police officers physically restraining a man from speaking

No one jumped up to defend the guy for stepping outside the rules of the discussion, and then no one jumped up to defend him when he started fighting the cops. Just where should everyone rebelled and stormed the line?

again, you have this odd idea that citing evidence along with your question is outside the rules and disruptive or something. yes, it was a long question and they could have politely asked him to speed it up or get to the point. but people should have jumped in as soon as the cops began to physically restrain him. that is crossing the line 11ty billion times over.

 

[Grievearz]

The news isn't getting the facts right as always...

I'm a UF student and had friends at this event. First off the student was on private property, freedom of speech does not apply on private property to a certain extent. Second he was not invited to ask Kerry any questions, he barged up to the front of the line and grabbed the mic, thats why you see cops come up behind him so fast in the videos. The only reason he wasn't escorted out right away is because Kerry said he'd answer the question.

When he was cut off after saying "*******" the cops moved in to escort him out, which is completely legal. They were not rent-a-cops, they were police. While he was being asked to leave, he started shouting for people to come help him, that he was being arrested for no reason (this was not true, he was not being arrested at that time). This is a direct attempt to incite action against police officers which is a felony (same thing as walking into a store and shouting fire to incite panic). At this point more officers moved in to stop him and at this point take him outside and arrest him. He was fighting the officers and flailing his arms and legs.

At this point it's procedure to subdue the person as quickly as possible to prevent injury to other students, the student himself and the police officers. He was given plenty of chances to stop and cooperate but refused. Would you have had the police hit him with a club to subdue him?

A lot of the people I've talked to who were there said that the kid was only trying to get attention (Which he's done, and then some) and he deserved what he got. It's just sad that there are so many people willing to jump on any sort of conspiracy/scandal just because it's more exciting than the truth.

Don't watch the shaky camera phone video on youtube, the camera man turns away while the police warn him and struggle to get him out of the building and comes back only when they have him on the ground. Watch the full quality video from a press member who caught the whole thing. You'll see how many times the student was warned and how much he fought the officers.

In a situation like that, all he had to do was leave when they asked him to and then gone to the press. That would have been fully protected by freedom of speech. Going on crazy tirades on private property is NOT.

 

[molsen]

lol @ "Freedom of speech does not apply on private property" our constitutional rights are triggered when a government entity tries to limit our rights. when a private entity does that, it's allowed. because these were police officers, not rent-a-cops, what they did was UNCONSTITUTIONAL, private property or not

i dont see how it was in any way legal for the cops to physically escort him out. where do you get your laws from? even if he did barge to the front, Kerry expressed willingness to answer his question. at that point, there was ABSOLUTELY NO REASON to restrain him from speaking.

what happened is still illegal and in violation of the 1st Amendment

 

[Grievearz]

No it's not. When you are on private property you can be removed for what you say. When he cursed, he violated the terms of the forum on PRIVATE PROPERTY, that was why he was asked to leave. At this point it was perfectly lawful them to ask him to leave, then escort him out when he refused. If some cracked out guy came to your house and stood in your living room spouting nonsense, would you just let him be or would you call the cops? The first amendment is not a law saying you can say what you want whenever you want where you want. There are other laws that can effect how it's applied. Try going into a mall and shouting fire, or going on a plane and saying bomb. Then tell me that you're protected by the first amendment.

 

[peterhuang913]

No it's not. When you are on private property you can be removed for what you say. When he cursed, he violated the terms of the forum on PRIVATE PROPERTY, that was why he was asked to leave. At this point it was perfectly lawful them to ask him to leave, then escort him out when he refused. If some cracked out guy came to your house and stood in your living room spouting nonsense, would you just let him be or would you call the cops? The first amendment is not a law saying you can say what you want whenever you want where you want. There are other laws that can effect how it's applied. Try going into a mall and shouting fire, or going on a plane and saying bomb. Then tell me that you're protected by the first amendment.

As long as he doesn't touch me or my property, I'll let him be. Who knows what else he will do.

Just prove that you're psychologically unstable.

 

[molsen]

No it's not. When you are on private property you can be removed for what you say.

by a private entity related to that property, NOT by a gov't entity

 

[Grievearz]

The cops were there at the request of the university to enforce their rules. When they violated the university's rules, the cops acted on behalf of the university. If the guy had a gun or weapon should the police waited to see if the owner of the building was ok with it? Or even if he SAID he had a gun or knife, should they have waited to find out for sure?

I highly doubt you'd let a crazed man into your house and then go crazy. You'd call the cops as fast as you could.

 

[molsen]

If some cracked out guy came to your house and stood in your living room spouting nonsense, would you just let him be or would you call the cops?

you're retarded. if you INVITED him into your home, you have every right to do what you want. obviously, if he just walked in uninvited, you would call the cops...

Try going into a mall and shouting fire, or going on a plane and saying bomb. Then tell me that you're protected by the first amendment.

see, that's completely different. those are words that incite a riot or panic. that is expressly prohibited time and again in court cases. also, those a private properties, and if an owner wants to allow those words, they can

nothing the subject did at the forum was inciting riot or action until he yelled "help me!"

 

[molsen]

The cops were there at the request of the university to enforce their rules. When they violated the university's rules, the cops acted on behalf of the university.

and what rule did he break? i get a feeling you're making lots of assumptions here without any hard evidence to back it up. what was the protocol for dealing with someone if he was "breaking the rules" yet Kerry asked them to let him be so he could answer the question?

If the guy had a gun or weapon should the police waited to see if the owner of the building was ok with it? Or even if he SAID he had a gun or knife, should they have waited to find out for sure?

that has nothing to do with free speech...:freak:

I highly doubt you'd let a crazed man into your house and then go crazy. You'd call the cops as fast as you could.

again, that has nothing to do with free speech

 

[peterhuang913]

molsen is gain ground here...