driving in iraq

[homerj14]

"there are absolutely no islamic leaders which condone any actions of extremist group using islam as justification for their actions." are you joking?
Ahmednijad, Nassrallah, Ismail Haniyeh, Abu Sayef

 

[homerj14]

as for leaders regardless most extremists if not all usually follow the words of clerics who are also the ones issuing fatwas

 

[gaara]

are you joking?
Ahmednijad, Nassrallah, Ismail Haniyeh, Abu Sayef

Great examples dude, because Hezbollah, Hamas and Abu Sayyaf aren't extremist groups to begin with, right? I suppose George Bush is a head figure in the church because he happens to be Christian and happens to assume a leadership role, right? Of course there are leaders of islamic extremist groups, and of course they are islamic, and of course they happen to condone the violent actions of THEIR organizations, but that doen't mean that the MAJORITY of legitimate islamic leaders are the same. Stereotyping at its finest right here.

And yes, I am aware that Hamas and Hezbollah have assumed limited influence in certain middle eastern states, but as I said, the majority of muslims don't even live in the middle east. I really wish people would actually look into things themselves rather than just assuming...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_by_country

At the heart of every Islamic fanatic, they're ideal situation is for Israel to be whiped off the map. We support Israel, which means they don't like us either.

Islam teaches nothing in regards to the destruction of Israel, but hey, if you can quote for me otherwise. There are indeed extremists as you mentioned who do work day and night with the intention of obliterating that state, but you act as if every muslim is an extremist.

 

[homerj14]

Gaara how do you think these extremist groups get money? by working? no who do you think is paying them off.. Al-Assad and Ahmedinijad your gonna tell me thats not condoning then what is? how can you also forget Iran's revolutionary guards who are also a terrorist group. 2nd of all you have obviously never been or learned about Lebanon except maybe on (wikipedia) you have no idea how much power Hezbollah has on that country. 3rd quote me where I said all Muslims are extremists? also Hamas is running the government in Palestine your gonna tell me its just an extremist group? maybe I have a different mindset about Muslims and the middle east because unlike you I lived there . Im sure youve heard of the Al Aqsa martyr Brigades... apparently Fatah are Moderate form of government in Palestine but they are muslims so I should respect that?

 

[homerj14]

Gaara but you don't realize anymore Islam isn't the same do you think there still using the same books to teach on as they did hundreds of years ago? of course not there using broken down versions to preach hate and teach the next generation of islamofacists. of course theres good seeds of Islam don't get me wrong. but can you tell me one muslim group condoning violence against Israel and terrorism and extremism in the world? when a rocket is launched and women and children or a suicide bomber where is the muslims speaking out? don't tell me its because israel invaded palestine

 

[gaara]

Don't really want to get into this......

Ok, so now you're bringing up more and more specific states rather than religious leaders to represent Islam. So, let's see, if you want to get into theocracies there are really only four Islamic republics in the world:

Afghanistan
Pakistan
Iran
Mauritania

So you wanna know who's been funding these guys? Afghanistan actively supported Al Queda and other such organizations when the Taliban was in power, but weren't they removed several years ago? Irrelevant. Furthermore, if you want to trace it back the CIA trained these militants and supplied them during the 1980s as per American policy (truman doctrine).

Pakistan was a supporter during said war on terror against the taliban and allowed americans access to their air bases. I haven't heard any reports of them assisting terror organizations, and if I remember correctly, they delivered a big long speech several years ago denouncing Islamic extremists. That's some great support of Islamic extremists right there.

Iran, now yeah, everyone knows the guy running Iran is a looney and has openly announced the destruction of Israel and them and Syria actively allow terrorists to cross their borders into Iraq. Can't argue that. But what has the dude actually done besides spit a bunch of hot air and try and develop some 3rd world quality nuclear arms? Ohhhhh, he organized a history re-evaluation on the holocaust with a clear agenda in mind...what a threat! Put him right up there with mel gibson why dontcha

Mauritania, I'd be interested how many people could actually locate this on a map. There have been numerous military coups there over the years, one recently just under two years ago, so I REALLY don't think they're in any position to provide support to anyone at this point.

Ironically, perhaps the most theocratical state in the middle east is none other than america's best friend saudi arabia, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they are the only remaining legitimate monarchy in the middle east. And yes, I know they don't support terror organizations, that's not my point. My point is you can have a state "appointed" by Allah himself which doesn't condone this extremist behaviour.

Yes people don't read or teach the same religious teachings from before, but that isn't just limited to Islam. The bible has been intrepreted and rewritten numerous times, and as I mentioned, there are christian organizations that condone violence in the name of god. Let's call all christians extremists because of these limited radical new teachings!

I love how you bring up your middle eastern experience after I already told you that Islam is not something that is limited to the middle east. You appear to be dismissing the current teachings of all of Islam as radical and dangerous.

Again, I can't really blame people. This is just the next red scare/mccarthyism generation that has been fueled that nothing but a misinformed public that relies on nothing but carefully filtered media presentation

 

[homerj14]

Ok I'm done

 

[Lord AnthraX]

Ok me too.

 

[hillbillybob]

Don't really want to get into this......

Ok, so now you're bringing up more and more specific states rather than religious leaders to represent Islam. So, let's see, if you want to get into theocracies there are really only four Islamic republics in the world:

Afghanistan
Pakistan
Iran
Mauritania

So you wanna know who's been funding these guys? Afghanistan actively supported Al Queda and other such organizations when the Taliban was in power, but weren't they removed several years ago? Irrelevant. Furthermore, if you want to trace it back the CIA trained these militants and supplied them during the 1980s as per American policy (truman doctrine).

Unfortunatly, you are right, and that was during the Cold war when our biggest threat was the Soviet Union. The USSR was doing the same thing. We funded these groups because of their distaste for the USSR. A kind of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of deal.


Pakistan was a supporter during said war on terror against the taliban and allowed americans access to their air bases. I haven't heard any reports of them assisting terror organizations, and if I remember correctly, they delivered a big long speech several years ago denouncing Islamic extremists. That's some great support of Islamic extremists right there.

Yep, and pakistan is also a seat on the UN, fielding troops and material during UN backed conflicts. BUT, they are still against Israel. That makes it a touchy situation as where america stands.


Iran, now yeah, everyone knows the guy running Iran is a looney and has openly announced the destruction of Israel and them and Syria actively allow terrorists to cross their borders into Iraq. Can't argue that. But what has the dude actually done besides spit a bunch of hot air and try and develop some 3rd world quality nuclear arms? Ohhhhh, he organized a history re-evaluation on the holocaust with a clear agenda in mind...what a threat! Put him right up there with mel gibson why dontcha

Really, nothing more than when a rooster struts. However, even the growling dog will bite. Iran has shown a lot of disregard, and many of those actions were nothing more than trying to get america or anyone else to strike first. Iran is dumb enough to pick a fight they will not win in the hopes of calling a Jihad and dragging everyone else in. I do agree, ol President AckHackAndSpit (I can't pronounce his name) is one crazy SOB


Mauritania, I'd be interested how many people could actually locate this on a map. There have been numerous military coups there over the years, one recently just under two years ago, so I REALLY don't think they're in any position to provide support to anyone at this point.


You are right, I know I couldn't point them out on a map, and provided what you say is true, economically they couldn't fund any terrorist org.


Ironically, perhaps the most theocratical state in the middle east is none other than america's best friend saudi arabia, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe they are the only remaining legitimate monarchy in the middle east. And yes, I know they don't support terror organizations, that's not my point. My point is you can have a state "appointed" by Allah himself which doesn't condone this extremist behaviour.

IMO, the only reason Saudi Arabia is nice to America is because we are their biggest customer. If, in the future, we find another source of energy, I have to wonder exactly how that will effect the situation in the middle east when we no longer have "interests" over there.


Yes people don't read or teach the same religious teachings from before, but that isn't just limited to Islam. The bible has been intrepreted and rewritten numerous times, and as I mentioned, there are christian organizations that condone violence in the name of god. Let's call all christians extremists because of these limited radical new teachings

I have to agree with you on this one, 100%


I love how you bring up your middle eastern experience after I already told you that Islam is not something that is limited to the middle east. You appear to be dismissing the current teachings of all of Islam as radical and dangerous.

Again, I can't really blame people. This is just the next red scare/mccarthyism generation that has been fueled that nothing but a misinformed public that relies on nothing but carefully filtered media presentation

A few bad apples can ruin the whole batch. However, those people that don't support radical extremism also need to stand up and fight against the tarnishing of their religion. One point I want to bring up is that you really don't hear of those extreme radical christian orginisations rising up against Islam...they are normally fighting other christians or governments (IRA for example) The radical islamists have been striking *everyone* not like them. Thats what Im trying to get at.