Internet Explorer, standards, HTML5

[mitzi]

Hi guys,

I'm just doing a bit of research about html5 and I'm just wondering what peoples opinions were?

Looking at past releases of Internet Explorer (most notably IE7), it appears they have always been fairly troubled and riddled with issues such as the lack of backwards compatibility. I myself gave up using this browser a long time ago in favour of Opera and more recently, Google Chrome.

IE8, despite being the most standards compliant release of IE so far apparently still has flaws and doesn't render some pages (such as some facebook pages, cnn, bbc, etc) properly. I just wondered why this is? Does the blame here fall with the web developers or with microsoft? I don't know a whole lot about it, but I'm leaning towards microsoft. Other browsers do not appear to have this problem. Can anybody set me straight?

I've also heard that IE doesn't at the moment have as much support for HTML5 as other browsers. Does anybody else agree that when this new standard is released, while it is long overdue and needed, it will create another hurdle for developers to get it working with Internet Explorer, which currently captures 75% of the browser market.

 

[KSoD]

Show me a single browser that is fully standards compatible and doesnt have a flaw. Oh wait it cant be done.

Chrome doesnt pass Acid3. It is not standard compliant.
Safari does pass Acid2 and Acid3. But it doesnt render all sites properly due to Webkit.
Firefox doesnt pass Acid3. Not compliant.
Opera10 does pass Acid2 and Acid3. But doesnt render sites properly. Not compliant.

Dont blame the browser either. Some pages are coded specifically for a browser. So that is not the browsers fault when the coding is faulty.

To lean towards Microsoft, only shows complete lack of knowledge on web coding and standards. As of right now only Safari and Opera 10 pass the Acid tests for standard compatibility. Yet each site renders differently due to the core used. Browsers also handle each string of code differently. So while the code may be perfect to web standards, the core used displays it differently.

Sorry but that logic is completely flawed. As no browser out there is compliant and flawless.

 

[mitzi]

Show me a single browser that is fully standards compatible and doesnt have a flaw. Oh wait it cant be done.

Chrome doesnt pass Acid3. It is not standard compliant.
Safari does pass Acid2 and Acid3. But it doesnt render all sites properly due to Webkit.
Firefox doesnt pass Acid3. Not compliant.
Opera10 does pass Acid2 and Acid3. But doesnt render sites properly. Not compliant.

Dont blame the browser either. Some pages are coded specifically for a browser. So that is not the browsers fault when the coding is faulty.

To lean towards Microsoft, only shows complete lack of knowledge on web coding and standards. As of right now only Safari and Opera 10 pass the Acid tests for standard compatibility. Yet each site renders differently due to the core used. Browsers also handle each string of code differently. So while the code may be perfect to web standards, the core used displays it differently.

Sorry but that logic is completely flawed. As no browser out there is compliant and flawless.

When I said I was leaning towards microsoft, what I meant was, I was leaning towards them being the problem. No other browser seems to have as much trouble as them and I was just wondering why that was. I didn't say that it was fully standards compliant, but that out of all the releases of internet explorer so far, it is the most standards compliant out of those, yet it still has problems, more so than any other browser despite having such a large market share and I just wondered what peoples opinions on this were?

 

[KSoD]

They have asked the W3C several times to be part of several commities to form web standards. Most recently some aspects that deal with HTML5.

So i dont see how Microsoft could be the problem when in fact they are trying their best to be part of the solution rather than the problem.

The problem is not Microsoft. The problem is that Internet Explorer was only 1 of 2 browsers that helped form the web. Netscape was the other. Coding was done for 1 of those 2 browsers. Then came the W3C and formed these so called standards and made them almost direct opposite of what the major browser at the time was doing.

So how can Microsoft after so many years of being the top dog and having everything done their way be at fault when the people who formed the standards was founded and made the standards long after the browser was already around?

If you think IE has issues, then you really arent looking hard enough. Firefox 3 has glitches, bugs and more security flaws than IE8 has. Chrome is so crazy that within 2 years they have already released 4 versions of the browser, dropped 2 code lines and have 3 branches of the browser for users. Opera 10 has bounds of its own problems that vary from displaying websites wrong to flat out not being able to be used.

So again you are looking at this from the wrong aspect. You should ask why the standards were formed AFTER IE was already established as the browser to use. You should ask why so many standards were formed the way they were when the W3C knew that it was in direct conflict with how the majority of the world would see it at the time. Meaning that IE was the main browser back before Firefox and the rest came along.

Every browser has problems. I have yet to find one that doesnt. If you find a browser that doesnt have problems let me know, cause i sure would love to use it.

 

[mitzi]

They have asked the W3C several times to be part of several commities to form web standards. Most recently some aspects that deal with HTML5.

So i dont see how Microsoft could be the problem when in fact they are trying their best to be part of the solution rather than the problem.

The problem is not Microsoft. The problem is that Internet Explorer was only 1 of 2 browsers that helped form the web. Netscape was the other. Coding was done for 1 of those 2 browsers. Then came the W3C and formed these so called standards and made them almost direct opposite of what the major browser at the time was doing.

So how can Microsoft after so many years of being the top dog and having everything done their way be at fault when the people who formed the standards was founded and made the standards long after the browser was already around?

If you think IE has issues, then you really arent looking hard enough. Firefox 3 has glitches, bugs and more security flaws than IE8 has. Chrome is so crazy that within 2 years they have already released 4 versions of the browser, dropped 2 code lines and have 3 branches of the browser for users. Opera 10 has bounds of its own problems that vary from displaying websites wrong to flat out not being able to be used.

So again you are looking at this from the wrong aspect. You should ask why the standards were formed AFTER IE was already established as the browser to use. You should ask why so many standards were formed the way they were when the W3C knew that it was in direct conflict with how the majority of the world would see it at the time. Meaning that IE was the main browser back before Firefox and the rest came along.

Every browser has problems. I have yet to find one that doesnt. If you find a browser that doesnt have problems let me know, cause i sure would love to use it.

As i said Mak, I don't know a whole lot about it. Hence posting here hoping to have a discussion on it. While I appreciate your views, I think there's a better way to get them across rather than making someone feel like an idiot. Thanks anyway.

 

[KSoD]

Sorry you feel that way. But really you asked, i provided information. You want a discussion to place blame on Microsoft and IE, so be it. But it should be known the truth and why such things are incorrent.

Firefox is now the leading browser, not IE. But you cant understand why Microsoft is not at fault unless you look back at the history of the web and see how things first started.

You are only focused on 1 single aspect. IE and Microsoft's blame in all of it.

IE was a big part of the problem for many years. It is totally true that they didnt try to even start to become compliant till IE8. but they also never thought that Firefox and other browsers would eat away at their market share and have people question standards like they did.

It would be the same if Mozilla and Firefox ruled the web for so long and then people started to ask themselves why is Firefox the only browser used. We would be having a discussion where Firefox and Mozilla were the main points instead of Microsoft and IE.

Do i agree with everything that Microsoft has done? By no means. But at the same time i dont blame them for everything either.