Setting up client-server network?

[treelovinhippie]

hi

A local produce and rural place I work part-time for is moving down the road to a bigger, new premises and they will need a network setup for about 5 or so computers and since I've setup simple networks before I've sort of been asked if I could do it

So they'll probably have one computer in an office and others that will be located in other sections like saddlery, nursery, etc. The accounting software they're using atm is attache catapult and they current'y have 2 computers networked in the current shop with both accessing the same data on one of the computers.

Do you think it would be best to setup a server? Or just network them normally with a router/switch connected to the computer in the office?

I was initially thinking a file server would be the best option as each computer will need to access separate data (i.e. each section will be setup as different companies in catapult). And that way at the end of the day all the data can be accessed from the one location (the server) and the server can run automatic daily backups, or even hourly backups.

Though I have very little idea on servers Can you build your own server, or should I buy one, or use a regular computer? What software should I run? How do I go about setting the client-server network up? Does anyone know of any good tutorials?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

cheers
nathan

 

[treelovinhippie]

OK I've drawn up a network topology type thing (see attached) - let me know if anything in it won't work or any advice you might have.

Each computer will probably have its own printer since each computer will be separated a fair distance and will be used a POS systems.

Only the main computer will connect to the internet via dialup, so I was thinking I'd only need a switch, rather than a router... is this right? A switch can still effectively share files and printers right?

If I setup the network in the diagram, can all computers access the file server computer? Can each also access all printers? How would the security be on this network? The main computer will have firewall software, so does that mean that only the main computer will be 'open' to the internet and none of the rest of the network?

The "Ext. HDD" will be an external hard drive backup drive. In the file server I was thinking of having 2 hard drives, one with the data that all the computers access and one as another backup drive so that there are 2 backups.

With the file server (or dedicated computer)... so is a regular computer with a fast CPU (intel or amd?), 1GB ram a good option? Should I setup a raid thing? How do I go about this? Can this be left on 24/7? Do I need to include a monitor with it? Does it need any extra cooling, or would just a good case with a few fans be sufficient?

so many questions!

cheers

 

[Win2kpatcher]

A switch would work, but I would still prefer a router since it would only run you a few more bucks. You don't need a high power Cisco router for such a small network so a small linksys would do fine for what you need. This will allow you some control over the clients and ports and security settings if ever needed.

It all depends on how much $$$ they want to spend that determines what server you get either a true server or just a normal computer that shares items. Remember if you go with a true server env it will get expensive really fast mainly for software. You would have to purchase the Windows Server software and each of the CAL's for the connecting PC's etc etc...

If all they simply want to do is have all the computers talk to each and not want to spend a lot of money then what you have drawn out would work fine. Yes they would all talk to the file server so long as it is on 24/7. The ONLY way that the computers on this network would be able to print to ALL printers would be to leave them all on 24/7 or purchase printers that have ethernet ports built onto them or install 5 print servers. If you already have the printers and they are only parallel/USB then a print server would be the optimal route to go so they stay on 24/7 so long as the router stays on then it doesnt matter which PC's are on/off. I would then take it a step further and install all the printers on your file server that way its nice and clean then when you install the printers on clients machines it will be a clean \\server1\hpoutside rather than having to install a new local tcp/ip printer port on each machine.

The next thing you would want to think about is lenght. How far exactly are these other computers? How much cat 5 cable will you need? Does it exceed the boundries of a standard cat5 distancs(300ft if I recall? maybe someone can verify).

Once you have all the factors laid out a nice scheme of what you need to purchase and what to do it will really be a piece of cake for such a simple network. Just set them all to the same workgroup and share whatever you want to share on each machine or the server. They should all be able to pull an internal IP address from the router with no problems and nothing else should need to be configured on the router at this point and time, but always good to have in case they get high speed internet someday. The dial-up account should work without any problems and the software firewall should be ok just make sure you give it the proper exceptions for the ip address range of your network.

 

[treelovinhippie]

They won't want to spend much money. I'm thinking of just having almost a normal computer as the file server. Just a regular cpu, maybe an amd sempron 3100+ as I think intel would run too hot and thus be very noisy especially when it will probably be on 24/7. Then 1GB of generic ram and 2 hard drives, maybe just 40GB each since the data file is only a very small 50MB. I was then thinking of looking into the raid thing and setup these 2 heard drives in some raid so that they can be automatically backed up and if one fails, then the other one automatically kicks in and lets you know that one of the hard drives has died.... is this possible with a 'normal' computer like I just described?

Haven't got the printers yet and the cable will be less than 100m (300ft)

Would there be any benefit in running windows server on the file server as opposed to just running windows xp?

cheers

 

[treelovinhippie]

oh and also, they may change to broadband in the distant future, though even if they did, I don't think they'd want to allow internet access on the other computers (i.e. the ones the employees will be on) - otherwise there will be a lack of work happening

So do you still think router over switch?

If I do get a router, what will the security on that be like? As with the current diagram, only the main computer will be 'open' to the net as the file server and other computers will be protected by the switch as it won't allow any internet access.

 

[Win2kpatcher]

Naghh no benifet for that small of a network espcially only running a workgroup. I would stick with XP to save money. Sweet have them dish out a little extra money for printers with network capibility, you will thank yourself later as you grow.

Like I said a switch would work fine, but its always nice to have some kind of control over the network settings. Security is pretty good with a router as you have all kinds of options to fine tune, but if not connected to the internet there is really nothing to configure so the switch would be fine. I would choose an Athlon XP to do your dirty deeds they run really cool with little effort.

 

[treelovinhippie]

ok thanks

So for the server just build an athlon xp setup in a cool case, good integrated graphics mobo, and I'll have to find out how to setup two had drives in a particular raid mode. And then just run xp on this?

I think I'll also look into some software that can send messages over the network. Also, do you know of anything you can use to turn off all the computers at the same time from one computer? This would save having to go around at the end of the day and turn off all the computers. It'd also be good if the server could be turned off and on whenever any of the other computers are turned on, rather than having the server computer on all night and on sundays when it won't be used.

With the 'network capable' printers, are you just referring to printers that will work over a network or something else?

The printers they'll be getting will be laser printers. They currently have one printer in their 2 pc network and both computers use the same printer which is just connected via the normal printer port on one of the computers.

I'll talk to the 'boss' and ask whether he would want the computers, other than the main, to access the internet in the future.

thanks for your help so far

cheers
nathan

 

[Win2kpatcher]

Yes something really basic for a file server will do fine, and if you find yourself in the future "outgrowing" the file server and need a true server setup you can upgrade at that time. You can run a raid no problems. As for sending messages you can use "netsend" this will allow you to send messages to anyonre on your network that has the "messenger" service enable. You do it from a command prompt so it would look like

c:\net send computernamehere then this is the message I want you to see and pop up on your screen

or

c:\net send usernamhere this is my message ladalalalala

As for the printers yes basically a printer that has a port for a network cable so that you can run these all off a central location and they depend on one item rather than many items. Yea you can share the printers locally on each machine they way your doing now, but its not a good idea. It basically works like this:

Scenario A-current situation
\\ComputerA is sharing his printer that is connected to his parellel port on the back of his PC. He named the printer HPBOB. You shared this printer so that the share name is also HPBOB. Now is long as his computer is "ON" anyone in that network can print to that printer via \\computera\hpbob.

Now assume \\ComputerB wanted to print to bob's printer, bob has left for the day and turned off his computer..whoops no one can print to the printer now!

Scenario B-proposed solution.
You install a network capable printer. It is assigned an IP address from the router via DHCP (thus why you would want a router in case you wanted a specific IP assignment). It is assigned say 192.168.0.5.

You install this printer on your "server" lets say \\server1. You name it HPBOB and share it with the same share name. You will install it on clients machines as \\server1\hpbob. NOW say \\computerb wanted to print to bobs printer, but bob has gone home for the day and turned off his machine..crap out of luck? NOPE! because we are not attched to bob's machine anymore and running off the network/server we only now have one dependcy. Servers are meant to stay on 24/7 so in the event should you lose your server I can promise you printing is going to be lowest priority on your list

This is whats good about network capable printers and print servers. It allows for indepandacy. Now you can go as far as installing the local tcp/ip port on each PC in your network and it will soley depend on the life of the router and nothing else, but I prefer the server method for ease of install, maintenace, and troubleshooting.

As for your other question about turning off multiple PC's at once yes it surely is possible. I turn off a batch of about 19 PC's every night just cause I know they wont be back till monday and always leave them on *rolls eyes*.

I use a tool called "beyondexec" and it rocks! It is a DOS based application. I have everything set so that it runs off one simple batch script so basically I double click one icon and it shuts off all 19 PC's. You can read about it at the link below as well as download it.
http://www.beyondlogic.org/consulting/remoteprocess/BeyondExec.htm

I renamed the executbale to shorten the command lenght. So mine looks like this

c:\beyond -g computers.grp -u administrator -p youwish -f -shutdown -x

You will learn what all that means when you read the link and play with the proggy. Basically I have a text file with a list of computer names that I want to shut off that the -g switch points to (plain text file that must be in the same directory as the beyond.exe) then the rest are basic switches telling it which user name and password to use on the remote system(the account must be an administrator on the machine you want to shutdown, basically set all the "administrator" account passwords to the samething on all pc's and do not leave them blank as its not supported with this tool and you will be fine) and force quit all applications, shutdown the machine, and finally grey out the option to cancel the shutdown at the user end. It really is a cool tool with many more features, just play around with it.

The what I did was create a simple batch file to automate the entire process.

 

[treelovinhippie]

Yep I've heard of net send, though a little complicated for the standard user. But I'm sure there would be something similar that just uses a GUI.

I've been looking up guides on Raid and I think I'm going to get either 2 X 40/80/120GB SATA hard drives (WD or seagate - heard that some seagates tend to be noisy, though have a 5 year warranty) and connect them up in Raid 1 so that I have an automatic backup. Though the guides I've found haven't exactly been what I'm after. Is it possible to hook up 2 SATA drives in raid 1? Then just install XP on one which will install on the other as well. Or would it be better to have a standard IDE drive with windows on and then the two other SATAs hooked up in RAID 1?

Here's the setup I was thinking of for the 'server':

Athlon XP 3200+ (Socket A 400FSB)
Abit NF7-S2G (Socket A) - though I've been reading that this board has had a few problems in setting up SATA RAID
2 X 512MB generic PC3200 DDR SDRAM
2 X 40/80/120 SATA HDD (size undecided - WD or Seagate)
good case with good fan cooling
very cheap graphics card - as nothing inbuilt on board

So if I connect the printers to the router or switch, I'll need double the cat5 cable hey? And also double the ports on the router/switch - i.e. at least 10 and more for possible additions.

Oh one thing I've forgot to ask... should they go for 100mbps network cards, or go the 1000mbps gigabit? I don't think they'd need the gigabit speed, and it's also an extra $20 on the network card over here in aus, plus will need a gigbit capable switch/router. The motherboard I'm thinking of for the file server has inbuilt gigabit just incase it's needed later on.

ps Win2kpatcher, are you the only one on these forums? Thanks heaps for all your help

cheers

 

[treelovinhippie]

I just had a look at some network laser printers that have the ethernet connection port.... jeez, I think the cheapest I could find were around the $500 mark.. lol I don't think they're going to want to spend $2500 on printers. They'll want laser printers, but I don't think they'll want to spend that much.