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Old 01-31-2006, 01:48 PM   #61 (permalink)
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well, if you read through this forum on page 2 you saw i was in HS and didnt know where i was goin to go. well i am now in my Second quarter at RIT (Rochester Institute of Technology) in Rochester, NY. i reread through most of the old posts. RIT offers a lot of the things people want to go into. Business, CE, CS and all that stuff. but we also have a Networking major, Applied Networking & Systems Admin. but there are many concentrations that go with this major, the one i am goin to do is Network Security.
the nice thing about RIT is that you get time out in the field while you are still in skool. we have required co-op that you do with any company that will take you. its for a quarter, but your do it like 3 - 5 times. so you can get up to a Year of within the field that you want to get into. and in most cases, the company that your co-op with will ask you to come back after you graduate.
if someone has any questions, just PM me
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Old 01-31-2006, 05:10 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Depends on the job your looking for. Some require a BS degree and won't even look at your resume if you don't have it. an Associates degree will get you a helpdesk/user support position if your lucky and use a bit of social networking. Certs do help but don't do much unless you have experience in the area you get the cert in. If you want to get into work easy and start getting experience this is the wrong field. it is too flooded and you really have to compete with alot of people that have been in the field longer than you.
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Old 02-02-2006, 08:01 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cindy
Also, depending on your age and many other factors, degrees are not always a good decision.
WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTT? You are joking, right? Why wouldn't a college education be a good decision? I guess if you wanted a career as a dishwasher it wouldn't be! Time to bust them suds, beeeatch!
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Old 02-05-2006, 09:40 AM   #64 (permalink)
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College didn't teach you common sense (no chance anyone I know would go to BestTests even if the site did work, which it doesn't) and it didn't teach you manners, either.

There are many, many people who have achieved great things without the benefit of a college education, so the dishwasher thing is really idiotic.

Starting college may not be the best decision for a 45 year old with a large family to support, for example. There aren't enough career years left to recoup the investment in money and time away from family. That same 45 year-old can, however, get certified in the technologies he is already using.

You appear to be about 15 years old, but some people have other considerations and prohibitive responsibilities.
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Old 02-05-2006, 11:34 AM   #65 (permalink)
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I think the most fundamental reason why employers ask for a college/university degree is b/c typically the intelligence level of those with a degree is significantly higher than those who do not.

Some jobs just want you to HAVE a degree period. They don't even care if it's even in a related field. Why would an employer take a chance with a person who doesn't have a college degree when they can just simply hire someone who has one? The mere fact that they graduated from college indicates that they have some form of intelligence. The same can't be said about the person who's never been there.

As for character development, common sense, "street smart" (whatever that means), NOT going to college doesn't really help these things. I mean why do people even use this as an excuse to justify not going to college?

It is also true that there are a number of people who are creative and intelligent and geniuses - in the classical sense - who has never been to university. But these are exceptional cases - NOT the norm.

More so than the financial situation, people who don't go to college don't go b/c they simply can't handle it. From high school take the students who has over 75% vs the people less than 75% average, and see the "college rates".

I mean c'mon. THere are TONS of people in university who are taking loans and barely surviving financially. These guys are not rich.. .. Yet they find a way.

So NOT going to college b/c of the financial situation are also exceptions to the rule IMO. Exceptions being single mothers and older people with families as someone already said.

In this day and age, there are very few reasons why people under 25 should not be able to go to college/university.
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Old 02-05-2006, 12:22 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I got a BS and then an MBA years ago, so thanks for the compliment.

But your statement regarding the intelligence level of those who went to college vs those who did not tells me that you are very young and very, very naive. There are tons of very smart people who did not go to college. Some of them lack drive, which is not at all the same as intelligence.

And tons of really stupid people were able to get degrees.

Government agencies, for example, are full of employees who are college-educated near-morons.

Also, at least in the US, it is the single mothers who can go to college - free. Childless women (unless they are in a minority group) are likely not eligible for anything but loans that will pay tuition only. Single moms and minority women can go anywhere they want, free - and get all their living expenses paid too.

It seems it is the women who lack enough sense to control their own reproduction are the ones who get the easy free college education.
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Old 02-05-2006, 12:26 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Oh, and regarding this statement you made:

Quote:

As for character development, common sense, "street smart" (whatever that means), NOT going to college doesn't really help these things. I mean why do people even use this as an excuse to justify not going to college?
When I made the remark about common sense, I did not mean to imply that those who did not attend college have more, I meant to imply that DaPunnisher doesn't have much.
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Old 02-05-2006, 01:01 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cindy
But your statement regarding the intelligence level of those who went to college vs those who did not tells me that you are very young and very, very naive.
I have my Bachelors, I have my masters (well waiting for the degree, submitted my thesis couple weeks back), and I have 3 years of professional programming/software development experience. I am 24 years old btw. Naive you say? Do elaborate.

You seem to have some difficulty carrying out a proper debate. No where in my original message did I question your intelligence or your maturity. I addressed your (and others) arguments on their own merit. The mere fact that you are speaking of my "maturity" and "naivety" without just cause, speaks volumes about your own character.

Address the points on their own merit. All you are doing is repeating what you've said before without addressing what I've said subsequently.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cindy
There are tons of very smart people who did not go to college. Some of them lack drive, which is not at all the same as intelligence.
As I've already said before, there are SOME very intelligent people who has never gone to college. I am speaking of North America only btw. The economics of other countries (e.g. south asia) are vastly different. But not "Tons". Give some examples and what they've done, if you can.

YOu speak of drive. Well, even people who go to university suffer from that. You think all the people in university are there b/c they have drive?

I lost drive for a couple of years myself. Yet my average still stayed above 70%. When I got my drive back, I went back into the 90%. I've had enough friends who just lost their drive and got bored after a couple years of university as well. Still they graduated. Lack of drive is not an excuse. Even without drive, a smart person can be in university and graduate successfully.

A less intelligent person, without drive, won't survive - or get into university in the first place. And some people who have drive early on will work like dogs, and will never get anywhere in life. They will realize this early on and will simply give up.

And for the record, I didn't go to a crap university. University of Waterloo is the best in Canada and one of the best in North America in computer engineering, computer science, and math.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cindy
And tons of really stupid people were able to get degrees.

Government agencies, for example, are full of employees who are college-educated near-morons.
That may be. But, they are still more capable than many people who don't have their degrees. High school IMO is the great equalizer in a sense. Every person is on the same playing field. The bottom line is that the most people that go to university have better marks in high school than the others.

Quote:
Originally posted by Cindy
Also, at least in the US, it is the single mothers who can go to college - free.
So lets strike them from the "they have a reason not to go to college" list as well.

The bottom line is I paid for myself through university. Ungrad and grad. Same goes for my friends as well. I just don't see the big deal. The government and banks can help you with loans, that you will pay back when you graduate.
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Old 02-05-2006, 01:31 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Give some examples and what they've done, if you can.
Bill Gates
Steve Jobs
Paul Allen
Richard Branson
Larry Ellison
Dave Thomas
Ted Turner
Henry Ford
Albert Einstein
Walt Disney
John D. Rockefeller
Mark Twain
Charles ****ens
Thomas Edison
Benjamin Franklin
Ray Kroc
Several US presidents
The Carneys
Tiger Woods and many other athletes
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Old 02-05-2006, 02:49 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Again these are individual people. I was more hoping for "classes" of individuals. As I've said before, there are exceptions to the rule.

And I was talking of the "modern day" situation. Not back when. Obviously, many people "back in the day" did not go to college. The geniuses pioneered their respective fields with their own research while the average person didn't have much of an education. The general knowledge level of the average individual back then was significantly less than now. The reason? Further education. "These days", it is better to go to college after high school. And the average intelligence level of university ppl is much higher than of people without a uni education.

Companies don't have time to sit down and "evaluate" you individually thoroughly - unless u are exceptional in something. They depend on the educational system to do this. They assume that in "general", and quite correctly, that the further the education a person has (high school vs university), the more knowledge he has and more "intelligent" he is likely to be. After all, "smarter" people TYPICALLY tend to go to university - as we can see by the admissions rates from high school. People with higher marks typically go to university to further "enhance their knowledge". Consequently, these are the smarter people as well.
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