Certs., are they worth the cost?

[NewTechie250]

Hi, I am new to the forum and in dire need of some advice. A little about me, I've worked since I was 16, up until I was 22 I've always had a supervisory/management position. At 22, my career and school was flipped upside down due to some rather unfortunate personal circumstances with my family. I'm 24 now in a dead end job i can't get out of to another job. I've applied at many places, but can't seem to get the interview. I call the places and seem to strike up a good rapport with the HR/hiring managers, but it seems someone from the inside takes the spot or I'm to late to it. I'm also an expectant father now for late this year.

So with that said, I've decided to enter the computer field. Computers I have never considered before as a career field as it's always been a hobby. I'm an enthusiast to some degree when it comes to hardware. I build my own systems. And I can assemble/disassemble my laptops for upgrades/troubleshooting. So, I'm very familiar with computers in the user perspective and to some degree, as a tech. I've always been encouraged to work with computers before, but when I was younger, I believed my career path was set in management till I realized how miserable I was at UPS.

So now I'm seeking training. I am looking at a training school called Netcom to help me reach my short term educational goals (certifying now, undergrad. later with new job) but they are expensive. So, they are giving what appears to be an excellent package if I take it all together, CompTIA A+, Network+, Security+, and then MCITP:Server and Enterprise administration. Yes, I know the Microsoft certs are very difficult. I know it is alot of information to take in and alot to read/absorb within the "boot camp" sessions Netcom offers. I have the Microsoft courses spaced 1 month from each other so I can prep before the boot camp starts. I'm confident of being able to do the CompTIA certs. though, I've already acquired study materials based on the current exams and much of it or at least 60% of what I read is familiar. Anyhow, tuition is well over $10,000. If I complete this training and certify up to the MCITP, will this give me the edge on my resume to get my foot into the door for an interview, and give me a decent salary? By decent salary right now, I'd be happy with $40,000 (preferably more of course, haha) a year as I acquire more experience. I have a little one to consider later this year, and $18,000 a year will not cut it. I've been advised that now is the time to do this before my child is born, because then it'll be even more difficult. I'd like to be transitioning to a new job by the time my child is born. I know experience in IT is essential. I have limited experience at my current job, I help do the final configuration for the stations at new locations we open. I do some diagnosing, troubleshooting, and repairs sometimes if my boss isn't so worried about voiding the warranty anymore because funds are short. Mainly when the capacitors on the MB blow, we usually get Power Supply failure (case to hot, which also causes the cap to pop I think).

Anyhow, the IT professionals or individuals involved in the hiring of new folks like myself, your opinion will be very much appreciated! Everyone else, your insight is appreciated too! Thanks! Sorry for the long post, haha.

 

[Sheepykins]

IMO after doing 3 "boot camp" or intensive training courses which lock you in a room for 13 hours a day, 5 days a week i would say hell no, they are not worth the money.

I did my comptia N+ bootcamp in 3 days, doing 9-10pm every day with firebrand and it cost the company i work for 1700. and for what? im not sure, the actual exam was with a different body (firebrand just do the training) and that cost 150, the place i was staying cost 75 a night to stay, plus meals which had little to no choice - one meal or the vegetarian option. set menu,

so lets say 90 a day for the hotel, we're up to 420. and there were about 15 students in my class.
We went through the course material at a fast speed, and tbh if i hadnt read the entire comptia network+ book before i went, i would have probably failed.

The problem with bootcamp courses is that they teach you to pass, not the criteria you really need to do the jobs well. without putting in the ground work yourself you are at a disadvantage and a few people on my course did not pass because they trusted in what the instructor taught too much.

When we got to the training centre i was given, firebrand slides, an official comptia book on the course (about 400 pages) and some other material which tbh was too much to go through with the spare time i had away from the course.

my advice to anyone is dont pay for bootcamps. Buy the course materials yourself which for almost every course are readily available for a fraction of the price on amazon or ebay, and then pay for the exam yourself. You can just pay for the exam, alot of training facilities keep the training in house but the official tests are not their own.

the comptia network plus book was 30 pounds, the exam 150. my company could have saved alot of money, but they were going to throw it away anyway so i thought hey, 3 days coasting in a classroom with all the mocha i can drink paid for, and the company also paid me for the days work i missed.

next time they try that however i will definatly refuse, and find a way to tell my manager to work the budget to get more people certed at the same time

 

[NewTechie250]

There is no travel expenses involved unless I want to be there personally, it is all Live online training and dialing in remotely to the work station. The plus side at Netcom is that you can re-take the course you taken prior already as many times as you like 12 months from the end date of the initial one you took until you pass the exam or even feel comfortable to take the exam. I do feel for the CompTIA portions that it is morbidly over priced, but even if I was to drop it, I'd only shave off a couple grand minus the $809 to pay for the exams to take. I get a combo boot camp package for A+, Network +, and Security + and the consultant slashed the price for me. At least, as long as I put in the effort, I will be provided the instructions and materials to guarantee that I'll at least pass the CompTIA exams. The Microsoft Certs. though I do kinda see a need for in class training (doing a non-boot camp or slower paced course is even more insanely expensive, so boot camps are my only option because of financials) since I do not have access to Winder Server 2008 or exchange 2010 to play around with and do labs on my own. It is more of access to the necessary software to gather knowledge or hands on experience I think I will miss out if I was to simply buy the book and study for the exam on my own. Thanks for your input though Sheepykins! I'll take your experience into consideration when I make my decision.

 

[TXCajun]

I think your original question was whether or not the certs are worth it. The short answer is yes, but I should expand for your benefit.

First, a bit of background: I am a 48 y/o male with a background in PR and mass media, not IT. I entered the IT field as a technical writer for better pay and opportunities. That eventually transformed into working as a network engineer. Increasingly, certs are critical because this is how companies and customers measure your ability to stay ahead of the power curve in an ever-changing IT industry. My challenge is being an "old dog" backed in a corner and having to learn new tricks.

So, officially-speaking... Certifications are an industry-wide recognition of skills obtained and maintained. Just like any degree, however, they aren't an indication of whether or not you have comprehension of the subject matter. In this day and age, there are so many study and test guides, cheats etc. and for IT certifications, it's more a measure of whether or not you can test well.

I have attended two boot camps - CCNA and Sec+. Both were designed to help you take the test. They are NOT designed to make you an expert on the material. Emphasis is placed on cramming information into your brain and getting used to how the test engines ask questions. Success is based on memorizing information, not comprehending it.

To answer the original question, I can say YES, certs are important. However, experience is JUST as important! If you are knocking out your certs via boot camp and without an education core behind it, then you will be behind the power curve when you go job hunting, because IT interviews often require you to demonstrate knowledge. I would HIGHLY recommend that you go to reputable trade school (such as ITT-Tech, etc.) that specializes in IT and includes certs in the curriculum. This will give you three advantages: First, you will get the hands-on experience in actually doing the job, second you will get the certs to back it up on paper. Finally, the school most likely will be partnered with employers or head-hunters looking for trained people.

I highly recommend that you focus on IT security (hot item now), but get your core first.

TXCajun
Net+ ce 2009, Sec+ ce 2011
up next: A+ and MCITP

Bon Chance!

 

[Lexluethar]

The order of importance in terms of getting a job go like this in IT:
1. Experience - experience is key in IT and look at any job posting, even the lowest of the low requires some type of experience. So it's difficult to get your foot in the door IMO, but once you are in, get a year or more of experience under your belt you shouldn't have much issue moving to another job
2. Education - having a bachelors or associates is becoming more and more important in IT.
3. Certifications - they don't replace Experience or Education, but they do show you have an understanding of the technology that you go the certification in. As Sheepy said though going to boot camps will cost you an arm and a leg, they do get you certified but what they USUALLY DO NOT do is actually teach you the technology. Unless a company is paying for the boot camp and you are already in a position that you are going to boot camp for (so you can actually apply techniques you've learned) i think boot camps are a waste of time and money.

I personally would purchase the book(s) yourself, study and take the exam yourself. You will save yourself money and you are probably actually going to learn more. If time is a factor and you have the money to blow then boot camps will get the job done, i just warn that you may not learn as much as you should.

As for that first job, I would suggest getting your A+, Net+ and one Microsoft certification (windows 7 certification) then applying. That should give you the ability to land a job in most entry level potisions. Also don't set yourself up for failure, only apply for jobs you are qualified for and you can do. I see a lot of people BS interviews and resumes to only get a job they aren't qualified for, screw up for 2 months then get fired.

 

[NewTechie250]

Thanks for your responses. I do not have money lying around, I am considering this an investment into my families future. Yes, going to a traditional 4 year school would be perhaps more effective in the long long run, but, I have a little one on the way and I'm not sure if I'll be juggle a new job, a new born, and then go to school. I plan to return part time and finish school on a new degree path on a later date. My original one was Astronautical Engineering, but the 6 year university I wanted to go to...is perhaps out of the question now. As for what you say in taking the classes and then acquiring the essential knowledge to perform your duties at a job, I understand what you mean. At the bare minimum, I expect these boot camps to help setup a solid foundation of knowledge for me to easily add upon through self study or experience at the work place. I am taking a Win7 configurations cert class with this boot camp. But from what it sounds like, it seems that certs are worth it, but acquiring them through the boot camps are meaningless in that it is not cost effective vs what I get. Which is kinda let down, haha. Thanks for your input TXCajun and Lexluethar.

 

[Lexluethar]

You are spot on man. I just think the amount of money you are going to spend isn't worth it when you are just going to more than likely get an entry level job.

If it were me i would get a windows 7 certification and the A+ then put your resume out there. Look into some professional resume writing too like Resume Writers - Certified Professionals for Resumes, Cover Letters

You may get an entry level job just after a few certifications - i know i did. Only have A+ and Vista certification at the time, while my passion was technology and I did a lot of support work at my old job i didn't have an IT job. I got an entry level job after a few months of having those certs and the little experience i got at my job (granite i had a 4 year degree).

Congrats on the baby as well

 

[NewTechie250]

Thx =). Haha, to be honest, my feelings are a bit mixed. I'm scared, anxious, and excited. And I feel extremely lacking right now in terms of the prospect of being a "breadwinner" or having something...or someone depend on me. Hopefully, things will pan out well in the coming months.

 

[Sheepykins]

having certs doesnt guarantee a job i'm afraid, after i certed i spent a year and a half sending my CV out to anyone and ended up working in a convenience store all that time.

you do what you have to, to make ends meet when you can.

 

[NewTechie250]

I'm well aware of that fact sadly =/. The point being was if it will tip the scale much more favorably if I invested the money to get the Certs. on my resume but is it worth the cost? From what I gathered here on what I would pay vs what I would get, no. Somewhat similar to having a Bachelors degree in some professions will not guarantee you a job in your degree field either. But it helps to increase your chances for a call.

ATM, I'm working at a dead end job myself with no chances of promotion unless the guy above me gets fired. Which is probably a negligible chance since he's close friends with the owner. We don't get PTO, benefits. OR annual raises.