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Old 12-14-2008, 01:59 AM   #71 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Windows 7 Milestone 3 Build 6801 Review

The problem with these issues is that they have nothing to do with the pre-beta. These problems are why people hate Vista. The number one complaint about Vista is hardware compatibility (or lack thereof). I see Windows 7 as being a great OS when it comes out, but it is not going to be the OS you buy to install on your existing hardware. I think Windows 7 will sell very well on new hardware, but considering it doesn't work on older hardware, the upgrade sales won't be so high. It is compatible with everything that Vista is compatible with, but if you have hardware that you have to stick with XP for now, you'll still be stuck on XP, and if you don't feel like shelling out huge amounts of cash for new hardware to support Windows 7, you'll still be stuck on XP.
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Old 12-14-2008, 02:01 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Well like Mak has said, you'll have to talk to the driver developers of the specific hardware in question, not M$. They merely make the OS, its up to the companies to provide the drivers that are compatible with the OS.
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Old 12-14-2008, 02:32 AM   #73 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Windows 7 Milestone 3 Build 6801 Review

I have, they don't seem the least bit interested. Idiots. I don't know why anyone would want to buy their products, how can we value their products if they don't even value them. I asked Netgear if there were drivers and the answer was basically a flat-out NO. Needless to say I was glad to give them horrible feedback on their stupid survey, but come on! They could at least open-source their old drivers (like they'll be needing them?!?) so that the community could maintain new versions. I don't see why XP32 and Vista32 need different drivers, after all, Vista is based on the same NT kernel that powered 2000, XP, and then Vista (yes it was modified, but still did the same thing, and most XP32 drivers do work in Vista, but the 64 bit jump and the horrible attitude of developers toward 64 bit drivers does not make the 64 bit future look very bright).

If Microsoft insists on changing the driver model for new operating systems, hardware manufacturers need to get coding rather than just pull lame nonsense moves like slapping "OUTDATED" on it and leaving it to rot in the dust. If hardware is only going to work for a year then why buy it? Especially simple stuff like Ethernet cards, there's no reason an Ethernet card shouldn't be supported on a new OS. It is really pathetic to have to be stuck on XP over an ETHERNET CARD.
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Old 12-14-2008, 08:59 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Default Re: Windows 7 Milestone 3 Build 6801 Review

They are not going to be interested. What is better for them?

Make a driver for a older piece of hardware or tell people that it is old and outdated and to buy new stuff from them?

Which do you think they are going to do? Which do you think is going to be more profitable for them?

They are NOT going to make driver for the older stuff cause they lose money that way. Just as Microsoft would lose money if they did not force Vista out there. Jsut as Microsoft would continue to lose money if they did not develop and get Win7 out there.

Technology is about progress. Not about being stagnent. It is about evolving for the future and making things better. It isnt about adding new features to something that is 7 years old already.

The biggest complaint for you about Vista maybe hardware. But for more people it is stability, software compatibility and speed. Those are the major ones i see.

It is best for Microsoft and for the developers if they do not make drivers for the older stuff. Cause then Microsoft can get away with higher system requirements cause the hardware out there is more powerful, and the hardware companies make out cause they sell more.

I highly doubt that any amount of bickering will get the hardware manufacturer's to give in on this. They would lose money. When they support the OS that holds well over 80% of the world market. It is nothing but profit for them. IT is all about thi all mighty $$ not about making the people happy.

Again Vista is not he same kernel. It does not do the same thing. If it was teh same then the same software that worked on XP and 2000 would work without updates on Vista. There was kernel code changes. It may still be the NT Kernel. But that doesnt mean a thing. XP used Kernel 5, Vista used Kernel 6. IS Version 1 of the Linux kernel still the same as the Kernel used today?

It is your choice to be stuck. Not theirs. It is your choice to stay on XP over a ethernet card rather than do what 90% of the population would do and buy one that is compatible. You want them to make the old drivers so you dont have to update. That is fine. But griping about it every chance you get and trying to blame them for being business smart is not going to get anywhere. I already said why they wont. I have said it several times about the whole Microsoft part of it. Now it is jsut getting old. They WONT do it. End of story. Yeah it stinks. Yeah it makes us spend more money. But that is the point. They want us to spend the money.

You are choosing not to. You are choosing which OS to use base on your hardware you have now. Others choose to update a ethernet card here, RAM there to make their system work with the OS. You are not. It is not the manufacturer's fault nor Microsoft's fault for what you are choosing to do. They are just doing what EVERY business in the world does. Makes progress to make money.
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:22 PM   #75 (permalink)
 
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If technology is all about progress, not being stagnant, then why do they make you buy new Ethernet cards for new software? The new Ethernet card is going to do EXACTLY THE SAME THING as the old one, but because they want to rip you off, they change up the protocol a bit so you need to buy a new one to use a new driver. What a waste.

Technology takes one step forward but businessmen take it 5 steps back, that's about how well progress is going on the hardware side of things. Good businesses earn money through innovation, not ripping off people by duplicating the same old stuff. For example, I'd gladly buy a gigabit Ethernet card to upgrade from my 10/100 one, because a gigabit one is actually a step forward. I'd gladly buy a new graphics card because it's faster than my current one, a new TV card if it actually has a better picture, a new hard drive if it's bigger/faster, a new printer if it prints better pictures, etc. But buying the same exact thing just so businesses can get their stupid cash flow moving is nonsense. In an industry that is supposed to move forwards, I'd like to see them moving forward rather than remaking old stuff to cash in on it.

I have some other network cards at home (Linksys, D-Link, and like 5 more of these awful Netgear ones that don't work) so I'll try them when I get home, hopefully those will work in Vista. My motherboard has a working Realtek one but I'd like to have all the hardware working.

I'm installing Vista now (finally got a 32 bit DVD) and trying to do an upgrade from XP (where everything works). Maybe the drivers will stay installed, maybe not.

What really gets me is that the Netgear card's XP driver comes with XP, so I figured if Microsoft cared enough to have a driver for it included on their XP disc that it'd at least maintain compatibility. Does Microsoft write the drivers on their discs or do they just get drivers from OEM's for common hardware and put it on the disc?
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Old 12-14-2008, 05:47 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Default Re: Windows 7 Milestone 3 Build 6801 Review

I'm with Mak here. What Mak is saying makes perfect sense and it is 100% right. C'mon it's just an Ethernet card. Why bicker over a $5 piece of hardware? Again, it's an Ethernet card! They are a dime a dozen. I would be more sympathetic if windows 7 mysteriously didn't work with ATI 4000 and Nvidia 8 series cards. That would be buzz worthy. Not a cheap and mind you expendable Ethernet card.
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Old 12-14-2008, 06:04 PM   #77 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Windows 7 Milestone 3 Build 6801 Review



Vista works with it, Win7 PreBeta 32 didn't, but Vista32 does. I don't consider any hardware "expendable". If it works then it isn't expendable. There's no point to get new hardware to support software when you can use working software (software being much easier to switch, costs nothing to switch (in my case, I had an XP license, a Vista license), and you don't have to order it from weird places online (no credit card).
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Old 12-14-2008, 11:48 PM   #78 (permalink)
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Okay Calc let me propose this then.

You own Linksys. Now you have Payroll, Money for advertising, Money for research & Developement, money for expenses, money for the parts needed to make the devices, money for shipping to places and so much more to run a business.

Now do you want someone to stay on that 5 year old Ethernet card when you have all those expenses and NO money coming in? Not to mention you would like to make a profit and get something out of it. Now if you keep making those old devices work on the newer OS's where is your profit? Where are you making your money? How long before you start to have to lay people off cause you got no money coming in to make new product, to research new products and so on.

You are only looking at it from a single point of view. You are only looking at it from the end user who is getting boned cause you have to spend a few bucks to buy a new card that will do the same thing. Yet you dont look at it from their end. Cause you dont care.

But yet if you dont spend the money on that part that is just another job lost in this sad economy. That is just another person collecting unemployment from the federal governement which you pay into. So which is the lesser of 2 evils? Buy a new Ethernet card for a few bucks and have people keep their job? Or have unemployement rates climb even higher and more people mooching off a already strained govt and your hard earned money that you paid into taxes?

You say it is 5 steps back? How? Jsut cause they dont support a card? Give me a break. You just feel slighted and you think that cause you have the hardware it should be supported. If that was the case then why isnt Win 95 still supported? I have it. I paid for it. Come on Calc. Now your getting way to extreme.

Sorry that i feel spending a few dollars to get a new card that is supported is the right thing to do and not to complain that a older one isnt supported. If that is the case how come there isnt drivers made for newer devices for older OS's? Same arguement just reversed.

The plain and simple facts are what i have stated. Like them or not. It doesnt matter. Those are the facts. Those are how the BUSINESSES will operate. They are in it to make money. The almighty dollar. If they have to upset a few people cause they dont write drivers for a older card for a newer OS so be it.
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:02 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Well said Mak. Calc, just get over it and spend the $5. You will feel better in the end.
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Old 12-15-2008, 01:50 AM   #80 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Windows 7 Milestone 3 Build 6801 Review

I did get it working. I didn't have to spend any money either, switched around from a bunch of different versions and I did finally get it working in Vista 32, along with my TV tuner. I doubt I'll be able to get it working in a 64 bit OS (other than Linux) but for now it works.

The main reason I don't want to get another one is, for now, I have the integrated one (Realtek onboard), but if I get a new desktop, I'd probably make this one into a server. I have like 5 of these Ethernet Netgear boards, so I'd just load up the server with them and it could perform routing functions. Buying one wouldn't be so bad, but I have 5 of them, having 5 of them no longer work after buying them for the explicit purpose of having them on hand and never having to buy another Ethernet board is not so great.

Ah well, if I ever make a server I'd probably be using Linux or XP, and I can get them working in those OS'es.

As for my next build, most motherboards have integrated Gigabit now so no big deal.
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