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Old 01-29-2009, 09:56 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Nintendo on Forbes - talking about old school NES

If you've been following the console wars, you should be pretty up to date on what's going on. If not, this article is a pretty good read. Enjoy. Go Nintendo!

Nintendo Does Not Console Microsoft - Forbes.com
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Old 01-29-2009, 01:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nintendo on Forbes - talking about old school NES

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Originally Posted by Bettertrades View Post
If you've been following the console wars, you should be pretty up to date on what's going on. If not, this article is a pretty good read. Enjoy. Go Nintendo!

Nintendo Does Not Console Microsoft - Forbes.com
yeah GO NINTENDO! good job on not releasing a decent game in 6 months along with allowing 3rd party developers to shovel out the crap which results in 50% of Wii games having a metascore of 50% or less...oh yeah and thanks for Wii Music...possibly the worst "game" ever made

theres more casual gamers then hardcore, which perfectly explains why Nintendo is doing better then Sony and Microsoft. Unfortunately I'm not a middle aged soccer mom...so a Nintendo Wii doesn't appeal to me with its gimmicky shakable A stick. Out of the 4 top selling games of 2008 they listed lets go through them:

1. Wii play: everyone just buys it for the extra controller and this has been stated by virtually every critic
2. Mario Kart Wii: a game with n64 style graphics and gameplay which doesn't offer anything new except the same rehashed random gameplay with a horrid 82% metascore
3. Wii Fit: Anyone who uses a console to lose weight has more serious problems imho...but I guess it appeals to the "casual" market so I'm not going to argue
4. SSBB: Practically the only good game on the Wii along with Mario Galaxy. There is a HUGE contrast when comparing these games to the other crap on the Wii.

Oh and Nintendo is charging a whopping $30 bucks for re-released gamecube gamers on the Wii offering nothing except worse controls...GO NINTENDO!

( sorry for sounding like a nintendo hater...but I now I am, don't take anything personally since your not Nintendo :P your welcome to offer a rebuttal with good counter arguments :P
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Old 01-29-2009, 05:58 PM   #3 (permalink)

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Default Re: Nintendo on Forbes - talking about old school NES

Let's not blow everything out of proportion. While they have undoubtedly made mistakes, Nintendo has done very good things with this console.
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Old 01-29-2009, 06:10 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nintendo on Forbes - talking about old school NES

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Let's not blow everything out of proportion. While they have undoubtedly made mistakes, Nintendo has done very good things with this console.
Nintendo has done very good things for the video game industry in general. However I have yet to encounter someone offline as well as online who can make a good argument as to why a Nintendo Wii is the console to own present day for someone who is more then mildly interested in video games and aren't completely obsessed with the same characters Nintendo keeps using over and over again.

The problem with the Wii, is that it lacks not only the technological power, but the xbox and ps3 line ups for the future are incredibly impressive along with their continous price drops on their systems which negates the Wii price advantage it had before ( the 80 gig ps3 can be bought for as low as $250 ).

The mass shovelware thats out for the Wii can't be denied as well as Nintendos questionable tactics ( such as re-releasing gamecube games at premium prices or devoting much of their resources to producing "casual" games ( even the animal crossing commercial showed teenage mall girls playing the game ), and severely limiting the Wiis multiplayer capabilities ). Besides the argument that most peoples Wii is now collecting dust ( most probably due to their lack of games besides ssbb for 2008 ), I personally believe the Wii was all gimmicky and its potential was nerfed severely once I discovered their Wii stick was nothing more then a shakable A stick and didn't have the accuracy or percision to control games well like people first imagined.

Just sharing an opinion, although it may be a harsh one, thats just how I feel and can't really sugar coat it any better. Nintendo is definately the smarter company when it comes to racking up the sales though and really knows how to reach out to the untapped market. Heck even my Mom asked about the Wii and shes never played games in her entire life.

PS: I really love the smash series and the depth put into it, although it has its flaws, SSBB is definately the best Wii game out there imho
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:48 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nintendo on Forbes - talking about old school NES

I agree that the Wii really needs some more good games. I really want one but then I realize that I really just really want Super Smash Brothers. And then I also realize that I really just want to play SSBB in person with my friend that has the game. So I concluded that I really don't need the system.



Really...
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nintendo on Forbes - talking about old school NES

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Nintendo has done very good things for the video game industry in general. However I have yet to encounter someone offline as well as online who can make a good argument as to why a Nintendo Wii is the console to own present day for someone who is more then mildly interested in video games and aren't completely obsessed with the same characters Nintendo keeps using over and over again.
Well now you have.

Being a parent the Wii is perfect. The games are jsut right, i dont have to hunt for a E or game for younger audience. Cause about 75% of the Sony and XBOX games are M. Mainly sports games are E and there are very few games for younger crowds.

Yeah i could get Viva Pinata for my baby for the XBOX. There is a plus over something like Mario Party that she would enjoy.

Not to mention that it does appeal to me. I have played several games on it. From sports to action (Metroid) and further. The Virtual System is perfect for me. I can get games from several developers.

I have owned every Nintendo console and 2 of the 3 Sony machines. Of them all i still value my Wii higher than any other system i have owned. For me more variety and more game play.

I dont care about GFX. I started gaming when there was a box with lines. Pong. I could care less about my games looking real life. That isnt what interests me. I care about the game play. The Wii offers this.

Your arguements are single sided and only based on 1 fact. GFX.

The Wii was never meant to over power the 360 or PS3. They said this from teh start. It wasnt meant to compete with them GFX wise. They were all about the game play. To some people that DOES matter more than GFX.

I am still happy to hook up my NES at times and play Tetris. I am not all about the looks. If i can get a sports game and actually PLAY it and not mash buttons. That matters more to me than what it looks like.

With the Wii i love the fact that i have to actually Throw the football in Madden. Not just press a button or push it with a certain amount of pressure to get a bullet pass. I can just wave my arm slightly to get a lob or really put some umph behind it for the bullet pass.

I love having to move the Wiimote and Nunchuk to get a juke, to arm bar by a defender, to stiff arm the oncoming tackler.

To me that means more than being able to press a few buttons to do that action. that is just 1 game. Metroid was a blast to play. To have to move myself around and see that action be represented on screen was a blast.

So there you have it. Some one who thinks the Wii is worth it and has given some point from their point of view as to why. While you will come back at me with some other arguement the fact is you will never change my mind. My brother has a 360 and my buddy has a PS3. Both have HDTV's and i do like what i see. But i feel left out of the game just pressing buttons. For ME PERSONALLY i like game play. Considering that the Wii is the highest selling system and is still in high demand. I would say i am not the only one with this opinion.
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nintendo on Forbes - talking about old school NES

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Well now you have.
.
your just 19 days late :P hehe


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Being a parent the Wii is perfect. The games are jsut right, i dont have to hunt for a E or game for younger audience. Cause about 75% of the Sony and XBOX games are M. Mainly sports games are E and there are very few games for younger crowds.
.
of course thats true, Nintendos favorite audience has always been the younger crowd, and it is a great system for the younger audience due to its high volume of E material


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I dont care about GFX. I started gaming when there was a box with lines. Pong. I could care less about my games looking real life. That isnt what interests me. I care about the game play. The Wii offers this.

Your arguements are single sided and only based on 1 fact. GFX.

The Wii was never meant to over power the 360 or PS3. They said this from teh start. It wasnt meant to compete with them GFX wise. They were all about the game play. To some people that DOES matter more than GFX.
.
I'm not all about graphics either ( I still play SF :P ), I know about the Wiis objective, but as Yahtzee said it better their objective of offering superior gameplay with superior controls is lacking. Although certain games ( like Metroid ) utilized the control scheme pretty well, other games like Zelda and such pretty much just turned the control scheme into a shakable A stick that even had the capacity to cause physical injuries. The Wii didn't take advantage of its potential, and perhaps the hardware limitations might have been the reason for that. Gamasutra - Opinion: Two Years In - How The Wii Has Failed is an aritcle which states my opinion better :P


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While you will come back at me with some other arguement the fact is you will never change my mind. .
debates don't only just happen to try to change peoples mind, it can be a good exchange of ideas too :P I like to think I always take everything anyone says into consideration

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Considering that the Wii is the highest selling system and is still in high demand. I would say i am not the only one with this opinion.
Well like I said, the main audience of the Wii is the "casual" market which typically entails people who don't usually play video games ( hence the whole non-hardcore gamer phrase ), they are more of them then dedicated video game people like me. I don't hold anything against that market ( as some do ), but I find developers try to take advantage of the casual people because they know they don't know any better, hence the 50% Wii shovelware dilemma.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:42 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nintendo on Forbes - talking about old school NES

It isnt just the casual gamer. There are still many hard core gamers that play the Wii. My buddy who owns the PS3 is one. He has a 360 and a Wii and off all 3 systems he has more games and plays the Wii more often. As well as being a avid PC gamer as well.

You experience is just what you make it. Just what you want it to be. Growing up with the NES and being there first hand and seeing the impact Nintendo made on this community i may play favorite a little bit. I wont lie. But the truth still is that it is a individual experience.

You say that it isnt based toward hard core gamers. That is your experience. Yet i still see SNES Tourny's locally for SF2. I still see classic NES Mario Bros Tourny's locally.

While you say that the casual gamer is not knowing this information what if it is just the exact opposite? What if they are like me and CHOOSE the Wii? What if they dont feel that the 360 and the PS3 has anything to offer for them?

From all the games i have seen on the XBOX and PS3 i can say this.

XBOX would only get me for Halo Series and the Gears of War series. I have tried many games. None frew me in.

PS3 i would get for SF4 and Final Fantasy.

The Wii i already ahve a extensive collection built up for. I play it every so often. So yeah i may not be a "hardcore" gamer who dedicates my life to it. But the fact is that i am far from not knowing my information. To sit back and say that these people are not knowing or they dont know any better only shows how little you know. Sorry to sound harsh but you are making a judgement call about people when you have no reason to make such statements.

To say that my wife doesnt know cause she loves her DS and Pokemon games isnt true. To say that she doesnt know cause she loves her Zelda games isnt true. She has played just as many games as i have. Just as most people i have talked to.

Yeah i have meet a FEW people who wanted the Wii jsut cause it was the "IT" thing to have. But few and far between came to this decision without at least asking some kind of information first.

The main audience is people who want gameplay not GFX. There are plenty of games that look very good on the Wii. Metroid wouldnt have looked all that much better on a 360 or PS3. It was perfect the way it was. Mario Galaxy was another GFX great game.

Your defination of hardcore is different than others. You say your hardcore cause you play all the recent games and can get thru it on the hardest level. Congrats on the great accomplishment.

I say being hardcore is being able to brag about having just about every system from Intellivision to at least 1 of the current generation with having every system before it. Being able to say that i have dedicated over 100 game play hours to a single game to get everything in the game. To me that is hardcore. To dedicate over 20 years to the gaming community is something to say your hardcore about.

Yeah not all games that come out are good. But it is your opinion versus that of another to say if it is good or not. No one is right when you use your opinion and try to push it as fact.

I am not saying i am right for my opinion. I am not saying that what i have said is fact. But the truth is that it is ALL opinions. You are not right for your point of view cause it is just that. I am not right cause this is my point of view.

We can sit here and go back and forth till the end of time. But the facts will never change. A difference of opinion is just that. You have a opinion about what the Wii is and what it has done for the market which is not going to be shared. Just as the person who wrote the original article that is their opinion.

No one is going to be right. The proof is in the sales. The Wii sells and is demanded more. Fact is in the number of units sold. Everything else doesnt matter. My opinion, Gabb's opinion even Files-amin or whatever his name is, his opinion doesnt matter. The Wii is selling. People want it. Till the trend shifts, the Wii will be the best console in number of units sold. If it is the best console or anythign does not matter. Cause there is no facts behind it. It is all opinions.

You can post stats of what each system can do. But that is not going to tell anyone what the better system is. Cause it is just stats. IT doesnt account for personal taste.
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Old 02-19-2009, 02:55 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nintendo on Forbes - talking about old school NES

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It isnt just the casual gamer. There are still many hard core gamers that play the Wii. My buddy who owns the PS3 is one. He has a 360 and a Wii and off all 3 systems he has more games and plays the Wii more often. As well as being a avid PC gamer as well .
and those hardcore gamers as reported in multiple articles by n4g.com, are frustrated because their hasn't been a first part title in quite a while on that system, while the other two consoles are getting AAA titles like gta4, killzone2, gow2, l4d, ds, fallout3, mgs4, etc

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You experience is just what you make it. Just what you want it to be. Growing up with the NES and being there first hand and seeing the impact Nintendo made on this community i may play favorite a little bit. I wont lie. But the truth still is that it is a individual experience. .
of course, I'm 24 years old so I grew up playing the NES and SNES as well Mak! I remember the good ole days with one of the best video games of all time, super mario bros 3 for the NES and street fighter 2 for the SNES. I miss those days too and will never forget em, there also the reason why I still love mario games and can never get over that nostalgia.

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You say that it isnt based toward hard core gamers. That is your experience. Yet i still see SNES Tourny's locally for SF2. I still see classic NES Mario Bros Tourny's locally.
.
Well you mentioned 2 systems that are not the Wii, besides that lets just get definitions out of the way ( which are often the source of misunderstandings ), to me a:

hardcore gamer: is one that has a life time of experience playing video games and continues to play video games that keep improving the core mechanics and have much depth, this type of gamer typically invests a lot of money and time into their video game hobby. One thing I stress is, this type of gamer is very informed before he makes a purchase and reads up on what all the critics think of a game.

casual gamer: typically someone who has just started experiencing gaming and is not as informed as a hardcore gamer which means they don't typically know which games are good to spend money on. Since they have not played the games in the past, they can't measure current games up with games of the past ( a measure often used by professional critics ).

neither is a bad person, I am not criticizing casual gamers for not being hardcore gamers, I'm merely identifying the two different groups and their typical characteristics. I am not calling people who purchase a Wii only casual gamers either, my main original statement is as follows: "I have yet to encounter someone offline as well as online who can make a good argument as to why a Nintendo Wii is the console to own present day for someone who is more then mildly interested in video games and aren't completely obsessed with the same characters Nintendo keeps using over and over again"

if I offended any casual gamers by comparing them to middle aged soccer moms then I apologize ( I was also being pretty faceitious ) but I believe I read somewhere that it typically is that profile, either way don't take it too seriously.

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While you say that the casual gamer is not knowing this information what if it is just the exact opposite? What if they are like me and CHOOSE the Wii? What if they dont feel that the 360 and the PS3 has anything to offer for them?
.
If you are a casual gamer, if you like nintendo first party characters, or if your looking for a system that is not the normal convention then I think the Wii is the best choice. If your a hardcore gamer searching high definition graphics and games that keep pushing the boundaries of good gameplay mechanics then go with PC...if you can't build a computer and have a nice HDTV then go with a PS3 or Xbox instead, their exclusives decide the choice.

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PS3 i would get for SF4 and Final Fantasy.
.
SF4 is actually multi platform ( xbox and sony ) and the superior version is the xbox one due to the superior XBL multiplayer experience and the fact the PS3 version doesn't support anti aliasing for some weird reason.


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The Wii i already ahve a extensive collection built up for. I play it every so often. So yeah i may not be a "hardcore" gamer who dedicates my life to it. But the fact is that i am far from not knowing my information.
.
most casual gamers aren't informed, so your different then the group definition I mentioned. I mean I have no statistical proof that casual gamers are less informed then hardcore gamers, but I think its rather obvious because someone who is very into a particular topic is reasonably assumed to be more informed/knowledgable about that topic. Also its proven by the whole Wii shovelware dillema. People not that into games are less likely to read reviews about them and see which ones are good.

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To sit back and say that these people are not knowing or they dont know any better only shows how little you know. Sorry to sound harsh but you are making a judgement call about people when you have no reason to make such statements.
.
that was harsh but I still think its a fair statement that casual gamers ( the majority of Wii owners ) are less informed then hardcore gamers. The reason should be obvious, its the very nature of the beast. A person who is very into something is going to be more informed, interested, and knowledgable of it ( always minority exceptions ). Why else would 50% of nintendo 3rd party titles have less then a 50% metascore? thats terrible, these developers know they can produce crap out and people who don't know any better will buy it. This has been stated multiple times in numerous system comparison articles I have read, so this is not only my opinion but many others as well.

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To say that my wife doesnt know cause she loves her DS and Pokemon games isnt true. To say that she doesnt know cause she loves her Zelda games isnt true. She has played just as many games as i have. Just as most people i have talked to.
.
Hey man I never said anything like that ( nor would I since its very disrespectful ), your putting words in my mouth now. If your wife has played just as many games as you have and you are both well informed...well I don't think you fit the casual gamer audience. Just because you don't get enough time to play games doesn't mean your automatically a casual gamer, heck i don't get enough time to play games cause I'm studying for the license exam either.

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The main audience is people who want gameplay not GFX. There are plenty of games that look very good on the Wii. Metroid wouldnt have looked all that much better on a 360 or PS3. It was perfect the way it was. Mario Galaxy was another GFX great game.
.
Mario galaxy was quoted in IGN and gamespot as saying it pushed the Wii to its limits, and its prob the best looking game on the Wii. However concerning Metroid, if it was designed with HD in mind, then it would look better on the xbox and ps3, this is sorta undeniable. Look at KZ2 for an example of what consoles horsepower can do.

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Your defination of hardcore is different than others. You say your hardcore cause you play all the recent games and can get thru it on the hardest level. Congrats on the great accomplishment.
.
My hardcore definition doesn't include what you said, I would consider more OCD trophy related people to be associated with this.

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Originally Posted by Mak213 View Post
I say being hardcore is being able to brag about having just about every system from Intellivision to at least 1 of the current generation with having every system before it. Being able to say that i have dedicated over 100 game play hours to a single game to get everything in the game. To me that is hardcore. To dedicate over 20 years to the gaming community is something to say your hardcore about.
.
that could be a definition, although it would already exclude many people out since they haven't been gaming for 20 years :P

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Yeah not all games that come out are good. But it is your opinion versus that of another to say if it is good or not. No one is right when you use your opinion and try to push it as fact.
.
I don't understand how I am guilty of doing this? I could put "imho" in front of all my statements but I think that would just be redundant. Everything I say is an opinion unless its specifically stated as a fact.

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We can sit here and go back and forth till the end of time. But the facts will never change. A difference of opinion is just that. You have a opinion about what the Wii is and what it has done for the market which is not going to be shared. Just as the person who wrote the original article that is their opinion.
.
but isn't the whole point of forums to share opinions and ideas? I'm sorry if I was mistaken but I was under the impression i was providing my opinions with a sense of humor and not offending anyone so deeply ( including you ) as you seem to portray.

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No one is going to be right. The proof is in the sales. The Wii sells and is demanded more. account for personal taste.
I've addressed this: theres more casual gamers then hardcore, which perfectly explains why Nintendo is doing better then Sony and Microsoft, and I said I hand it to Nintendo for reaching out to the untapped market, however I don't like the whole Wii shovelware dillema

I'm sorry if I have offended you with this debate Mak, but I find most of the issues that would cause you to get offended were misunderstandings with my definitions. Other then that, I think I was pretty civil in presenting my opinions, besides having a humorous tone about certain stuff ( like the whole soccer mom statement ). Wow that was a long post by me...
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Old 02-19-2009, 11:03 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Nintendo on Forbes - talking about old school NES

fyi Gabb, look at The Conduit, MadWorld, Deadly Creatures. All good graphics pushing the Wii to it's limits, more so for The Conduit. Sure there are mostly casual games. If i were u and had a Wii, i would train my eyes and keep a close one to the real core games only. So easy but sad to find so many on Wii that people dont see what i see.

finally good games are gonna be coming out again. If u dont like Wii, then dont rant it on it so much and dont play it, let the ones that do have it (like me) have fun. Look at Boom Blox and the upcoming Boom Blox Bash Party game, those games are more depth and creative then the cover of the game, trust me, i own the first one but havent played it in a while, im waiting for Madworld to release. The Conduit is gonna be using the WiiMotionPlus for true 1:1 motion which is amazing to here btw, and will use Wii Speak to talk to ur friends who u exchanged codes with sadly. Luckly u can go online and play with random people like in Metal of Honor: Heroes 2, which was boring but had 32 online for Wii, a first.

Mak, i see that u have a Wii. If u want to exchange friend codes, here is mine:

4206-7308-6394-7531. If u have SSBB, ill give u my code later.
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