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Old 07-20-2011, 11:08 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD says Xbox 720 graphics to be good as Avatar

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My last comment was directed toward a few people that are dead set saying that PC's always out rank consoles in features when one is released. Namely Thomas and Slay who say that no console ever beat out a PC. I just felt that such statements are not completely correct since they do have other features, other than graphics, that they do beat PC's on. People have to remember that the PS3 is not just a gaming console. It does so much more than just play games. Just like the XBOX. Every system has an advantage to begin with, but that is then ported to everything else done.
I understand what your saying, I wouldn't dispute that. All I use my Ps3 and Xbox for are games I can't get for pc. And since day one with both I can say that the gfx have lagged behind my pc. If the 360 and Ps3 launched supporting 16x AA @ 1080p then sure it would have been better. But without High level AA games do not look as good. Sure to some degree it is just my opinion but I think it is indisputable that pc's have always been more capable of higher quality gfx.
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:48 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD says Xbox 720 graphics to be good as Avatar

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You also have to take into account the price of hardware when the console was released. Back in late 2005 when the 360 was released there was hardware that outperformed what was in the 360 but for $400USD you could buy an Xbox 360, if you wanted a PC that with similar specs you would be paying a lot more than $400.
There was no CPU made for consumers in 2005 that was better than the Xbox 360. The 360 had a Tri-Core 3.2ghz processor where as the top end chip was the Athlon X2 (this pre-dates early C2D). The top chip was the X1800XT at the time for GPU and that is essentially what is in the 360.
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Old 07-21-2011, 12:58 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD says Xbox 720 graphics to be good as Avatar

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There was no CPU made for consumers in 2005 that was better than the Xbox 360. The 360 had a Tri-Core 3.2ghz processor where as the top end chip was the Athlon X2 (this pre-dates early C2D). The top chip was the X1800XT at the time for GPU and that is essentially what is in the 360.
Right and if the 360 had 16x AA in all games it would have looked as good as pc games at the time. My argument is simple. I am not debating anything other than "beauty on the screen" not power or features just the fact that 16xAA and 16xAF looks better than what the consoles offer.
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:14 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD says Xbox 720 graphics to be good as Avatar

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Right and if the 360 had 16x AA in all games it would have looked as good as pc games at the time. My argument is simple. I am not debating anything other than "beauty on the screen" not power or features just the fact that 16xAA and 16xAF looks better than what the consoles offer.
Right, and everyone else is arguing that PC's are always more powerful in terms of hardware which was not true when these consoles where released besides the GPU in the PS3. Which is why I didn't quote you because my responses wasn't directed towards yours
The other extent of my argument was how quickly technology is progressing and in 4 years time these consoles could have the power these people are claiming.
When these consoles where released not even PCs could handle 16x/16x at the current standard resolution. At best my setup (which at the time wasn't to bad) could handle 4xAA 16xAF with a 1440x900 res on the newest games.
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:21 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD says Xbox 720 graphics to be good as Avatar

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Right, and everyone else is arguing that PC's are always more powerful in terms of hardware which was not true when these consoles where released besides the GPU in the PS3. Which is why I didn't quote you because my responses wasn't directed towards yours
The other extent of my argument was how quickly technology is progressing and in 4 years time these consoles could have the power these people are claiming.
When these consoles where released not even PCs could handle 16x/16x at the current standard resolution. At best my setup (which at the time wasn't to bad) could handle 4xAA 16xAF with a 1440x900 res.

I'm with ya.

You hint at how technology is progressing, that is scaring me. For years it was sop to increase hardware output to get more out of aging software. Now with the growing popularity of smart phones and mobile gaming it is demanding the advance of software to run more efficiently on less powerful devices to maintain battery life. And it is my conclusion that we are entering the final years of the desktop pc.
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:25 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD says Xbox 720 graphics to be good as Avatar

If that was the case then we wouldn't see new hardware manufacturers pop up so much. People want faster everything which includes phones, computers, cars, tabs, everything. I don't see such small devices take over the PC market because there will always be the demand for gaming.
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:30 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD says Xbox 720 graphics to be good as Avatar

To PP:
You think 4 years? Everything I've read points to 2013. I mean, the Wii U is coming out next year. I would be extremely surprised if M$ and Sony waited 3 years after the Nintendo release. Now, for this gen the consoles haven't been competing, but the next Wii will be powerful enough for devs to start putting more multiplatform games on. I don't know if they want to give them to much time to get used to that.

And to the main topic:
I think Avatar cgi is very possible. If you watch Avatar again, you can tell that the cgi is definitely just cgi completely lifelike. Since dev's develop for consoles, it is hard to tell how close hardware has come to actually being able to do that. The guys who make it know better than we.
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Old 07-30-2011, 10:42 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD says Xbox 720 graphics to be good as Avatar

Problem is, even if it is possible to have realtime Avatar graphics, no developer would ever utilise that since 90% of the game's time and budget would have to go on making textures and models and so on.
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Old 07-30-2011, 02:37 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD says Xbox 720 graphics to be good as Avatar

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Problem is, even if it is possible to have realtime Avatar graphics, no developer would ever utilise that since 90% of the game's time and budget would go on making textures and models and so on.
I would expect it would be the same deal as it is every generation. The graphics will improve slowly overtime for about the first half of the console cycle or more. No, we aren't going to be getting Avatar-like games on release.
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Old 08-01-2011, 11:48 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Default Re: AMD says Xbox 720 graphics to be good as Avatar

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To PP:
You think 4 years? Everything I've read points to 2013. I mean, the Wii U is coming out next year. I would be extremely surprised if M$ and Sony waited 3 years after the Nintendo release. Now, for this gen the consoles haven't been competing, but the next Wii will be powerful enough for devs to start putting more multiplatform games on. I don't know if they want to give them to much time to get used to that.

And to the main topic:
I think Avatar cgi is very possible. If you watch Avatar again, you can tell that the cgi is definitely just cgi completely lifelike. Since dev's develop for consoles, it is hard to tell how close hardware has come to actually being able to do that. The guys who make it know better than we.
Most of todays consoles are released on a 5 year period which is kind of a standard people are used to. If they do indeed wait then they know that the Wii U will be no match for their upgraded hardware like it is with this gen. I've heard all kinds of rumors on release dates but most are pointing to 2015/2014.

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Problem is, even if it is possible to have realtime Avatar graphics, no developer would ever utilise that since 90% of the game's time and budget would have to go on making textures and models and so on.
I'm sure they thought that way when UT04 was released. 3 years later look how much better it looks, then they release Crysis 1. Now we have DX11 and games like Metro2033. Like I was saying above, it is very possible to have realistic looking graphics even with todays hardware and engines. Take that GTA4 mod for example. When done right, it looks pretty **** real which is all CGI is. The difference between the movie and games is movies like Avatar have a multi-million dollar budget that exceeds that of even todays top games.
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