Noise when turning... Hmm?

[Jayce]

I'm positive the person I spoke to was referring to the differential and not the transmission. He seemed very familiar with this particular one since this same differential is on several vans they service. I'm even finding on various web sites that it's suggested to replace the differential fluid as well. This one site here (RepairPal) is reporting 2 years or 30k miles for Saturn's with rear differentials. Seems a bit frequent compared to what the shop told me @ 50k miles, but oh well. Seeing multiple sites suggesting this at least helps solidify his suggestion about replacing the fluid. Not that I doubt your opinion in the least, but a lot of the resources I'm reading suggests this is a common part of drivetrain maintenance.

Also, I'm using the term flush on my own accord because that's just what I think of when you remove fluid and replace that fluid with new, even though I know flush has a specific meaning. My apologies!

I'll look into those Haynes books. I assume I can pick one up at Advanced Auto or something??

EDIT - The maintenance section in my manual has a few entries regarding "transaxle fluids." Is that another name for the differential?

Change automatic transaxle fluid and filter (severe service) - 50k miles.
Change automatic transaxle fluid and filter (normal service) - 100k miles.

The footnote for "severe service" is assuming you drive the vehicle under certain conditions, such as frequent trailer towing, hilly or mountainous areas, heavy city traffic where 90*F is common, or if the vehicle is used as a taxi or shuttle vehicle. Hmm... I DO live in a hilly area (I pay for that continuously when I ride bike on the weekends), but I'm not sure how mountainous we'd be considered by their standards.

 

[toxicity_27]

Transaxles are a component that combines the differential, transmission, and the axle all into one assembly. I would have the dealership do the fluid change, and would pick up one of those manuals, so you can see everything.

Did a google search, and found this; 2005 Saturn Relay Road Test Review by Bob Plunkett : ROAD & TRAVEL Magazine

Relay's AWD system — dubbed Versatrak — is designed to help the wagon maintain traction on wet or icy roads. It's always engaged so the driver never has to decide when to punch a button or pull a lever to turn on the device.

Under normal conditions the Versatrak system operates in FWD mode, however, there are wheel sensors aboard linked to a computer brain. If the system detects tire rotational differences between front and rear wheels during dicey traction conditions, it can instantly divert some of the engine's power to propel either or both rear wheels before tire slippage occurs at front wheels

 

[Jayce]

I hate to sound like an idiot, but if the manual says to do transaxle fluid changes every 50k/100k miles, does that subsequently mean by doing a transaxle fluid change, I'd in actuality be doing a differential fluid change as well?

Just want to make sure we're on the same page...

EDIT - Just for funsies I called several Saturn dealerships to compare opinions. Of the 4 or 5 places I called, there has been one solid, consistent answer.

Yes - The differential fluid must be changed within the 50k-100k area depending on driving conditions. Total cost for fluid, tax, labor, etc., runs about 170.

I think I'll take them up on that offer since I want this vehicle to last me as long as remotely possible. 170 for maintenance, 2,500 for a rebuilt rear end... ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh my mind is made up.

 

[toxicity_27]

Yes it means that you would be doing a differential fluid change as well. Though I would guess that the transaxle is at the front, since normally it's fwd until awd is needed.

 

[Jayce]

Not that this is the vehicle I have, but nonetheless it gives some more insight on the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkRBSNngtac

I'll be dropping the van off next week or so. I figured it'd be better to be safe.

I made a video myself (well, the only thing relevant with it is the audio) but on the computer it sounds different than in person. This sounds like a strange hybrid between a chainsaw and a high revving dirt bike.

http://vimeo.com/34105994

Nonetheless, there it is.

 

[C0RR0SIVE]

My intrepid used a "transaxle" transmission, differential was seperate from the transmission, well, it was in the same unit, but used gear lube. I am gonna say this, it's a transmission fluid change, as a flush will use ~4 gallons of fluid easily, and thats the only fluid I can think of that goes into a car that is that expensive.

 

[Jayce]

Good stuff. I began to think about this a little more tonight. I think I was jumping the gun a little quicker than I should have, which probably stemmed from having a vehicle far nicer than anything else I ever had before and having the "oh my gosh take super good care of it" notion. After all, people on these YouTube videos are having differential noises while driving straight @ 20, 40, 60 mph, etc., while I only have it when I do a half dozen tight circles in a parking lot to even get it going. Meanwhile users on those videos aren't freaking out to get it to the shop asap, but just suggesting flushes, fluid changes, etc. within a reasonable time frame. That said, I think I can sit tight and safely drive the vehicle without damaging anything until the Christmas season passes over. Afterwards I'll get it into the shop and get a fluid change done. The local shop told me the next week is their busiest since people have off work, they take that as a good time to get their vehicle serviced. Aka, bad time for me to put it in the shop.

Tonight I decided to try things out and see how they worked. It was raining pretty hard. I parked along side a back road that bordered a muddy field. I hit the gas with some decent throttle to initiate a tire spin, but the van just crawled right out of it. I repeated this several times, each time it just crawled out without issue. With the window down I could hear a tire slip now and then, but it didn't last long at all. Just long enough for me to know what it was. I never heard an actual noise of the rear end beginning to push the van forward, however based on the way it acted, had it been true 2WD I would have definitely had more issue getting out. I do find it kind of interesting how you can double the amount of wheels powering the vehicle and the driver feel nothing. Come onnnnn snow...

 

[C0RR0SIVE]

Honestly, every car should be put under severe conditions really, I wouldn't let it get too far over-due on the transmission fluid change, because that fluid is very important to your warranty, and clutch packs. If the fluid in fact is worn out enough, it will cause accelerated wear on the clutch pack. I am just kinda going o.0 because I know a differential fluid change is cheap and small compared to what you was quoted, even with dealer prices. Then again, maybe your new fancy car, the front differential uses transmission fluid.

 

[Jayce]

I'm not saying I'll get it done years from now. I'm simply saying I can at least let it pass till after the first of the year. I almost might have to do that anyway, because Jan 3rd we have to prove to the lender we have the money for settlement on the house, then a week later we move. I need *every* dollar to hit that mark, and ironically I get paid on Jan 4th... but the lender's deadline is the 3rd, so I'm stuck. After that I'll be free to do it then.

I've always been religious about taking care of my vehicles. It's just difficult with getting a used vehicle because I don't know the detailed history, a lot of it is just guesswork. But that's okay. Like I said, other users troubleshooting this issue with similar vehicles have this issue while going down a straight line. I have to do a couple circles to even get it to surface. I should be good for 2 weeks or so, I would think. I just hope the fluid change is the fix, unless the sound is normal for this vehicle type for some reason.

 

[Jayce]

Well, I went and had it done tonight. I had babied the car the last few days over Christmas and just avoided sharp turning. I successfully made it days without turning sharp enough to make the noise come back UNTIL I got into the dealership lot when I dropped the vehicle off. They had to do two flushes, which was in line with what people were saying online. The fluid was 30 dollars a bottle, and I needed just shy of 3 per flush. Overall, parts labor etc. I spent 260 or so with both flushes. So far, the noise isn't 100% gone, however if I drive in circles, the 1st will be the loudest, then it'll get quieter, quieter, and disappear within 3-4 circles. That being said, the 1st circle (while the loudest) is still exponentially quieter than what it was prior to getting the fluid flushed.

I just hope there wasn't any damage that was done. After all, some people have posted online with videos of their cars doing this while going down the street in a straight line, whereas mine was only when going slow on sharp turns. I hope that means mine wasn't pushed as far on the older fluid as some other people's were that still had success with simply changing the fluid. I hope from here on we're good to go until the next 50k rolls around that warrants another fluid service.