Monster cable vs coathangers

[EricB]

mak. you have to study this subject of accurate to understand.

they have to mention this to American's that want to learn about good sound. because we have to unlearn a lot of bad habits. we have to get off of that high I know it all about everything pedestal that we are on. we have to learn new techniques for listening to music. if this part were omitted, it would kinda defeat the purpose, because we already think that we know good sound.

how many times do you see a john doe posting a comment here offering his 2 cents about sound, only to have it come out, that he really knows nothing? all of the time

mak. you will never truly really understand unless you want to truly want to learn about good sound. it's part of a process, the untraining of your previous thoughts.

if you spent your whole life thinking that 2x2=4, I couldn't come along and teach you that the answer is 6. well with music with the US, it's vice-versa. we think that 2x2=6 and we will go to war about it, when the answer is really 4.

if you like sound a lot. I'd suggest that you go do some research. only then you can understand where we are coming from.

it's not a generalized statement. it's a process

 

[KSoD]

Eric i do understand what you are saying. I really do. I am willing to learn if you wish to tech me by giving me some sites to read up some info on this stuff or whatever. It is not that i dont think that we as Americans do not need to unlearn the bad habits. I think we totally do. Another one is the Language thing. We as Americans use some of the worst English out there. And trying to do that new thing where we spell the words as they sound is just flat out wrong.

It is not that i dont think what you are saying is wrong at all. I just think you are trying to say it wrong. The way you come across saying that all Americans are stupid to audio is not the way it should be. IT is a tad harsh and offending to just about everyone out there. Even to those of us who have had to use a keen sense of hearing to fine tune audio equipment.

The thing i am trying to say is that you should not just single out Americans and say it is just us. When it isnt. There are people all over the world now that listen to the stuff we do and think it is great. People all over the world listen to Eminem on a Logitech system and think it is the best thing ever. It is not just localized to jsut 1 place anymore.

If you want to make the arguement then i think you should jsut flat out say that everyone is wrong with their thinking of audio and we all should relearn it. Trying to jsut say that Americans are the ONLY ones in the world that think this way is just not right. You know as well as i do that it is not jsut Americans that think this way. But it is the Americans that are the first to come out and act as know-it-alls and make remarks that they shouldnt. But that is not the point i am trying to make. I am just saying your statment is geared toward a specific group that doesnt deserve to be the only group singled out as there are plenty of people in the world that are corrupted by our media and think this way now.

 

[EricB]

Eric i do understand what you are saying. I really do. I am willing to learn if you wish to tech me by giving me some sites to read up some info on this stuff or whatever. It is not that i dont think that we as Americans do not need to unlearn the bad habits. I think we totally do. Another one is the Language thing. We as Americans use some of the worst English out there. And trying to do that new thing where we spell the words as they sound is just flat out wrong.

It is not that i dont think what you are saying is wrong at all. I just think you are trying to say it wrong. The way you come across saying that all Americans are stupid to audio is not the way it should be. IT is a tad harsh and offending to just about everyone out there. Even to those of us who have had to use a keen sense of hearing to fine tune audio equipment.

The thing i am trying to say is that you should not just single out Americans and say it is just us. When it isnt. There are people all over the world now that listen to the stuff we do and think it is great. People all over the world listen to Eminem on a Logitech system and think it is the best thing ever. It is not just localized to jsut 1 place anymore.

If you want to make the arguement then i think you should jsut flat out say that everyone is wrong with their thinking of audio and we all should relearn it. Trying to jsut say that Americans are the ONLY ones in the world that think this way is just not right. You know as well as i do that it is not jsut Americans that think this way. But it is the Americans that are the first to come out and act as know-it-alls and make remarks that they shouldnt. But that is not the point i am trying to make. I am just saying your statment is geared toward a specific group that doesnt deserve to be the only group singled out as there are plenty of people in the world that are corrupted by our media and think this way now.

le me see if I get this right.

ok 95 percent of people in this country don't know good sound is. less than 5 percent do know what good sound is. 85% of those people who don't know what good sound is, swears that they know what good sound is. most will argue you down and go to war on this belief. they are corrupting the world into not knowing what good sound is

are you saying it's not polite to say that this group don't know good sound because they've convinced others not to know what good sound is.

I get it, I think

mak let's just drop the subject. I can agree that you are offended by the remark. I will never say that it's not true. I'm sure that there are others countries with people that don't know sound. that doesn't have anything to do with this subject unless somebody come from that country saying that they don't know good sound.

most Canadians know good sound. most European know good sound, especially people from denmark (where they make some of the world's best speakers), england, italy and france and germany. these people would frown when they walked into best buy and hear the BS that's playing there.

I have a lots of DJ friends and dj customers. with the exception of maybe one of them, none of them knows good sound. they are worst to deal with, because they think that their dj experience makes them know good sound

having a golden (good) ear is an art form

it would hurt your feeling if I told you that just because you worked for B&K that that doesn't give you a good ear. yeah everything in there may have sounded good but, that doesn't give you good ears. good ears comes from listening to all kinds of different speakers (not the same company who speakers all have the same tonal quality like B&K). good ears comes from people showing you what to listen to. good ears comes from research, research and more research. then after all of that research, then you start auditioning stuff. then you visit the hi-fi stores. around this same time that you good ear developes, you will notice that everybody else ears around you suck. hopefully your family will pick up on your good listing habits, but that's not a given either

then you will have to start watch what you say about audio because you don't want to offend anybody. you will offend people. because people just don't hear that they don't know good sound. I just 18 years experience just on this part alone to override anything that you are thinking. the funny thing was it's exactly as the books describe it. we (americans) just don't know good sound. it's been a thousand times worse since 2000, because the audio has gotten really bad and you really can't tell this new generation anything.

mak. the books and mags aren't wrong. you are just offended by the remark.

this is why we are sometimes reluctant to help people with audio here. a lot of the old audio expert don't even bother to come here anymore. nubius, 003, dj chris, molsen,etc.. they are gone from the audio section or they are just gone. crysalis makes a sighting here and there. we all know that we will get jump on when we recommend a superior product against and an inferior one that a regular poster might make. they will say that their product is better, then we will make some truthful statement and we will look a bad guy to a regular person. an true audio person will just know the truth. that we know what we know and you guys just don't know

 

[mcovalt]

What do you consider "good sound" Eric?

 

[EricB]

What do you consider "good sound" Eric?

accurate lifelike sound. the original sound. if you have a band making a song in the studio, you want the song to sound exactly like that. you want the instrument to come from the same spots. you want the voices to come from the same spots. you want the voices to be accurate (a women's voice is hard to reproduce accurately). you want to hear the detail. good sound is when you close your eyes and imagine you are there, because the music sounds like you are there

you don't get this sound with fly by night equipment

if the sound is altered in anyway, it is called distortion. so most speaker are distorted. actually all speaker are distorted. the better one distorts at their limits. it's actually more complicated than that, but explaining it would require too much typing



from the famous canadian company Paradigm. this will give you a basic idea on why you can't get accurate with just anything


Research and Development
NRC Research
Getting it right
Anechoic Accuracy
About the front axis
Total Sound Power
Phase Coherence
Diffraction

PS. one more thing. there is no high end us speaker company. polk audio, infinity and jbl (the last two are merge together with harmon kardon now) are consider mid line. Cerwin vega is consider low line. most others aren't even considered

 

[EricB]

a basic guide about good sound if you can't keep up with the above

http://www.paradigm.com/en/pdf/paradigm_all_about_sound.pdf

Could somebody please type this up for me so I could add this to my avatar? I don't know how to column it up like that

 

[Oreo]

As eric said. Good sound should be a totally flat response, no frequencies boosted etc, with each octave at the same volume. Basicly, as he already put it, sounds like it should sound. and how it was recorded.

However this is nearly impossible to achieve now as recording studios take out dynamics and boost all the quieter parts in CD's to be of the same level as the rest of the cd (encouraged by people that use ipods, that like this, for some reason) , leading to ear fatigue and that feeling that you just want to change song.

Anyway, back on topic. Here's the end all, American people claim to have a superior knowledge of sound because they (generally) are ignorant and not willing to accept that they are either wrong, or don't want to learn. However, some american people, like any country, will have people that DO know about sound. But we generalise it as a whole so we say 'America has inferior knowledge' because as previously stated %95 or more know nothing, but claim they do and will fight that if its the last thing they do on earth.

 

[Oreo]

Congratulations on reaching the 10K mark posts, Eric.

 

[mcovalt]

I appreciate your generous response. Yet, it only assures that your generalizations of America are rash and harsh. I do listen for the things you stated. However, because of the lack of money, I usually can't obtain the sound I desire. However, I do the best I can with what I have. I am sure others around here feel the same. Saying that the U.S. has no ear for music is like saying that the U.K. has ugly teeth. It is harsh, arrogant, ignorant, and unfair.

 

[mcovalt]

You may call your generalizing remarks fact or pride. You can call them anything you want. The truth is, your words bleed ignorance and hot-headedness.