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Old 04-30-2010, 06:20 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Belgium to ban the burka

Belgium first to ban the burka | The Sun |News
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BELGIUM has become the first European country to impose a full ban on wearing a burka.

Women will face jail for hiding their faces in public after the country's parliament approved a draft proposal set to be law by July.

Centre-Right MP Daniel Bacquelaine said last night: "The notion of recognising people in the street is essential to maintain public order.

"It's also a question of human dignity. The full face veil turns a woman into a walking prison."

It means anyone will be banned from covering their face in a public place, including the street, shops, offices, schools and hospitals.

Women will be fined 110 for the first offence.

If they refuse to pay or are caught a second time, they can be jailed for a week.

It is estimated up to 400 of the country's 280,000 Muslims wear the burka in public.

The move comes as other countries consider bringing in similar legislation.

In Switzerland, voters recently supported a ban on the construction of new minarets (tall spires on mosques), while France is preparing to vote in July on its own law banning Islamic headwear.

Under French proposals, women would be fined up to 600 for hiding their faces, and be 'unveiled' at a police station so they could be identified.

Read more: Belgium first to ban the burka | The Sun |News
I don't want to sound racest here, but all I can say is GOOD! I am sick and tired of these people coming into another country to live and then still act and behave like they are back in there home country.
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Old 04-30-2010, 06:36 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Belgium to ban the burka

Really? That comes off as a bit rasist. Most things are religion based and customs from their heritage.. As a free/democratic country fully built on immigration, Australia would be nowhere.

While the Burka is a long time custom enforced by certain groups, and degrading to women, I'm fully mixed on the idea, squarely based on being from a country of supposed tolerance and accepting of other traditions.

Its weird and must be a torn feeling for a women whos wearing one.. firstly being forced to wear it, then being forced to not wear it.

We've had an issue lately here, with them being banned in schools, although having special stituations where the person can sit up front, and have no one but the teacher or other women able to see them.
This is a situation i do support, as how else can you garentee the correct person is taking the exam.
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Old 04-30-2010, 07:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Belgium to ban the burka

I have to agree with Keyboard Cowboy. If people want to move to another country and assimilate that country's culture and society that is perfectly fine but if they want to continue living as they did in their home country perhaps they should consider staying there.
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Belgium to ban the burka

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Originally Posted by patonb View Post
Really? That comes off as a bit rasist. Most things are religion based and customs from their heritage.. As a free/democratic country fully built on immigration, Australia would be nowhere.

While the Burka is a long time custom enforced by certain groups, and degrading to women, I'm fully mixed on the idea, squarely based on being from a country of supposed tolerance and accepting of other traditions.

Its weird and must be a torn feeling for a women whos wearing one.. firstly being forced to wear it, then being forced to not wear it.

We've had an issue lately here, with them being banned in schools, although having special stituations where the person can sit up front, and have no one but the teacher or other women able to see them.
This is a situation i do support, as how else can you garentee the correct person is taking the exam.
The problem i have is this. If was to move into their country, then i would be force to abide by their customs and ways. However if they move over here, they still seem to act and behave the same way. The second you start telling them that you do not behave this way in this our country they are waving the Racist Card.

Have a work with a few people that vegitarian by belief. I don't here them piping up about their beliefs every time I still a donar kakab with extra beef down my mouth.

I also do have feeling that the burka is degrading towards woman. Sure they can were what every they want under it. And they can pretty much were what i want a home. But I find the idea stone aged that they must wear it in public. Sure this might be a tradition that might of been going back a few thousand years. However some cultures really need to wake up and smell the 2010. Otherwise the rest of the world would be burning people at the stake or nailing them to a cross or getting stoned (and I am not talking about the wacky weed there.)


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Originally Posted by Puddle Jumper View Post
I have to agree with Keyboard Cowboy. If people want to move to another country and assimilate that country's culture and society that is perfectly fine but if they want to continue living as they did in their home country perhaps they should consider staying there.
The whole argument of You have to adapt to us. Not us having to adapt to you.
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Old 04-30-2010, 08:43 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Belgium to ban the burka

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Originally Posted by K.C.
The problem i have is this. If was to move into their country, then i would be force to abide by their customs and ways. However if they move over here, they still seem to act and behave the same way. The second you start telling them that you do not behave this way in this our country they are waving the Racist Card.
Sounds like the US. I like the way Teddy Roosevelt put it...

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:16 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Belgium to ban the burka

Just rememember Keyboard, Unless youre an Aborigine, You and your ancestors did exactly what you're hating about.

You as a white European went to Australia and forced a new culture on a whole nation, and killed the ones who didn't want to conform to the new way. Like all European settled "new worlds"

We as a "More High class" culture should be more accepting of the other cultures, even though they have traditions that might not be as popular. Forcing our beliefs customs and tradition is just as wrong. With the world so highly interconnected with the web, you will now be running into every culture religion and race known to human, and you need to learn to accept others even when they live in "your" country.

And remember KC, your Kabob, is a tradition from another culture, but you like that one.

But the topic is on a Burka ban, so I've said my bit, and done in this topic.
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Old 04-30-2010, 09:39 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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Default Re: Belgium to ban the burka

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Originally Posted by patonb View Post
Just rememember Keyboard, Unless youre an Aborigine, You and your ancestors did exactly what you're hating about.
Should be

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Originally Posted by patonb View Post
Just rememember Keyboard, Unless youre an Aborigine, your ancestors did exactly what you're hating about.
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Old 04-30-2010, 10:41 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Belgium to ban the burka

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Originally Posted by patonb View Post
We as a "More High class" culture should be more accepting of the other cultures, even though they have traditions that might not be as popular. Forcing our beliefs customs and tradition is just as wrong. With the world so highly interconnected with the web, you will now be running into every culture religion and race known to human, and you need to learn to accept others even when they live in "your" country.
Being tolerant of other cultures doesn't mean you must let people do whatever they want. I respect that people from different backgrounds see things differently and if I am traveling or living in their country I will make every effort to abide by their costumes and traditions. However I don't see anything wrong with expecting people to show that same level of respect when they are visiting my country.

Despite being written over 100 years ago the quote Trotter posted is still very relevant today and perfectly describes my opinion on this matter.
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Old 05-01-2010, 01:31 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Belgium to ban the burka

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trotter View Post
Sounds like the US. I like the way Teddy Roosevelt put it...

'In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language.. And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.'
Theodore Roosevelt 1907
Although I might live on the other side of the world I do agree with was Teddy said there.

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Originally Posted by patonb View Post
Just rememember Keyboard, Unless youre an Aborigine, You and your ancestors did exactly what you're hating about.
No. Make that the American Indians. My part family tree hardly touches the first settlement with the exception of a brief visit to the Gold Rush. However at the end of the day, it the same thing, just different part of the world.

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Originally Posted by patonb View Post
You as a white European went to Australia and forced a new culture on a whole nation, and killed the ones who didn't want to conform to the new way. Like all European settled "new worlds"
More likes European had guns where the local natives did not. They came, saw, they conquered. It was not like there as any immagration offices back that they had to walk through when they game down here. Lets focus on the today events and not the past events of settlement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by patonb View Post
We as a "More High class" culture should be more accepting of the other cultures, even though they have traditions that might not be as popular. Forcing our beliefs customs and tradition is just as wrong. With the world so highly interconnected with the web, you will now be running into every culture religion and race known to human, and you need to learn to accept others even when they live in "your" country.

And remember KC, your Kabob, is a tradition from another culture, but you like that one.

But the topic is on a Burka ban, so I've said my bit, and done in this topic.
My problem is that if I was to go to the middle east (or any other country), i would have to abide be the local customs. I would have no problems in doing so. Why should it be any different the other way around.
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Old 05-01-2010, 05:58 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Belgium to ban the burka

I have really mixed feelings on this one.

For starters I have strong feelings about freedom of religion and the ability to keep ones culture and customs.

I also feel all people should have certain inalienable human rights and women should not be degraded.

I understand the safety concerns and while I will somewhat agree to it I feel it is a veil (burka) to hide behind masking the true reasons for the law.

So I am not sure where I stand on this one. Interesting comments from both sides. But tell me this, If I took my wife to a strict Muslim state, would their laws force her to wear a burka? Or would she be allowed to dress as she wishes because it is the custom of the land she comes from? Would she have to conform to their rules? I love people using the freedom of countries to back up their reasons for customs that I do not necessarily agree with when if the roles were reversed We would have no such freedoms in their countries and if we chose to go there we would be forced to abide by those rules.

I tell you what ****ed me off. People using their 1st amendment rights to slam/threaten someone for exercising their 1st amendment rights. Any one say Southpark here.
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