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Old 04-02-2005, 01:45 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Now, going through this guy Weapon, what is his deal? Do you reccomend/insist going through him? What does he do that is so good? (NOT doubting him, just curious).

120mm Pro-Combo Heatercore - Silver Any good?

Do you EVER sleep Nubius?

Yan Booth
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Old 04-02-2005, 03:35 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Yeah I sleep occasionally

Yeah I highly recommend going through him. He's ridiculously well known and not just through Xtremesystems as far as I'm aware. Do a search for '302 weapon core' and you'll see a lot of his info.

He takes a heatercore meant for a car and mods on the appropriate barbs for a water cooling kit. This requires copper soldering skills and he does a nice job. He'll also paint it, but you can get them unpainted. He designed a shroud to fit over the heatercore to raise the fans off the thing by a couple inches to get rid of the dead zone from the fans. He gets them CNC machined and are flawless....plus he delivers mounting hardware and for a good price compared to 'high performance radiators'

He comes very recommended by a lot of the pro water cooling users.

He gets a lot of orders so you'd need to take that into account. PM him with your zip code and what you want to order.

Heres the info from the 'For sale' section where he has them posted but you need 100 posts to access it so I'm putting it here

Quote:
The following is the latest info/pricing on the cores and the shrouds. I currently have about a 10 day delay in shipping due to an order backlog but I am going to knock that down some in the immediate future. The pricing includes info for the cores, the shrouds and both as a matching set as well as a complete combo with fans.

Weapon 2-302 core
Overall Dimensions: ~12-3/8" x 5-5/8 x 2" with the tanks
Core Dimensions: ~10-3/4" x 5-5/8" x 2"
Dimensions with shroud & 38mm thick 120mm fans: ~12-3/8" (L)x 6” (w)(at the shroud mounting lip) x 5-3/8”(d)
Dimensions are approximate as there is slight variation in core sizes.
--Cleaned internally and externally
--Factory solder seams checked and tested
--Factory Fittings replaced with brass barbs [3/8”, ½” or 5/8” OD fittings] which are silver soldered in place. Silver soldering the fittings makes them basically non-removable (without a good deal of effort and a torch) but it also makes them 100% leak free. The solder that is used on the fittings is rated for 15,000 PSI on joints which is extreme overkill but it makes certain that they will not leak.
Note on fittings: If you are using Tygon or Clearflex, you can stretch the tubing over the next largest size barb with a little effort after wetting the inside of the tube and the outside of the fitting. This normally produces a little better flow through the core as the fitting will not be as restrictive. A ½” OD barbed fitting has an internal channel that is approximately 3/8” so it matches up with the ID of 3/8” tubing. On the other hand, it presents a restriction point if used with ½” ID tubing. A 5/8” OD barb has a ½” ID channel and works very well with ½” ID Clearflex or Tygon. My main system uses ½” ID tubing with 5/8” barbs on the core and it works very well. The 5/8” fittings are flow cannons.

--Stealth Black paint finish on the core – if desired, the fins can be left entirely unpainted or they can be lightly dusted with just enough color to make them appear painted. Dusting the fins just colors the edges of the fins with paint and so far as I can tell from testing has no adverse effect on cooling performance.

Weapon Shroud
--18 gauge steel
--CNC cut and bent
--Optimized fan cutouts for max flow with fans mounted in either push or pull configuration.
--Seam welded corners
--Welded in divider plate that makes the shroud dual chamber
--Mounting lip with 4 holes predrilled for 4-40 threaded rods
--Stealth Black powder coat finish
--Approximately 42mm of standoff between the face of the core and the fins
--Mounting hardware is not included at this time with shroud orders (sorry, still trying to work out a deal to supply the mounting hardware.)
Picture of usual mounting: http://www.cox-internet.com/weapon/i...MountSide3.jpg
Note that clear acrylic was used to represent the case wall.


Required Mounting Hardware:
-- Four 4-40 threaded rods with two 4-40 nuts for each of the threaded rods. The length of the rods required depends on the number of shrouds on the core. With a single shroud, 3” rods will work, if there is a shroud on both sides of the core, 6” threaded rods are required.

--Fan mounting – 6-32 machine screws with nuts and washers. 1.75” machine screws will run through a fan grill, a 38mm thick fan and the shroud with some extra length to spare. A nut and washer are then added to the underside of the shroud to lock them in place.

Core and shroud images:
--Stealth Black Core and Shroud:

--Fan cutouts for maximum airflow from any 120mm fan:
http://www.cox-internet.com/weapon/i...ncutout2.1.jpg
Note that in the above image, the divider plate that splits the shroud into dual chambers was not installed.
--Custom Finished Blue Metallic Core and Shroud (custom finishes are +$10 over stealth black pricing – which covers the paint and the extra time involved):
http://www.cox-internet.com/weapon/i...coreblumet.jpg
--Stealth Black shroud:
http://www.cox-internet.com/weapon/i...1shrdfinal.jpg

302 Pricing:
Cores
--Weapon 302 Core (unpainted) fittings changed to brass barbs, cleaned and tested - $35 + S&H
--Weapon 302 Core, fittings modded, cleaned inside and out, metal prepped for paint, stealth black finish - $45 + S&H

302 Shrouds
--Weapon 302 shroud (stealth black)(does not include mounting hardware) - $28 + S&H

302 Core/Shroud combos
--Weapon 302 Core (unpainted), fittings changed to brass barbs, cleaned and tested w/ shroud (stealth black) and mounting hardware: $65.50 + S&H.
--Weapon 302 Core (stealth black) w/ shroud (stealth black) including all mounting hardware (for fans and shroud) - $75 + S&H
--Weapon 302 Core w/shroud, two San Ace 120mm fans (103cfm each), wire fan grills and all mounting hardware, assembled and tested = $91.00 + S&H. San Ace SOLD OUT again.)
--Weapon 302 Core w/shroud, two Delta VHE 120mm fans (129cfm each), wire fan grills and all mounting hardware, assembled and tested = $84.00 + S&H. (subject to fan availability - currently in stock)

Mounting Hardware
Four 4-40 threaded rods + nuts and washers for mounting the shroud $2.50 + S&H
Eight 1.75” 6-32 machine screws with washers and nuts for mounting fans to the shroud $1.50 + S&H

Fans (subject to availability)
San Ace 120mm x 38mm, 3 pin connectors, tested and lightly modded for improved performance – SOLD OUT.
Delta VHE 120 x38mm, 129cfm, 3 pin connectors, $4.50 each + S&H

Payment methods:
I accept payment via Paypal or money order.

Note on mounting hardware - we originally intended to include the mounting hardware with the shrouds but we realized that different mounting locations could require different hardware and it would be difficult to include all of the possible combinations of hardware at a reasonable price. Additionally, the mounting hardware is readily available and some might have the hardware already on hand so including the hardware would have unnecessarily increased the cost of the shroud. As such, we can provide mounting hardware with the shrouds at our cost but it is not included with the shrouds.

Weapon MonsterCores and Shrouds:
MonsterCores
--Weapon MonsterCore (unpainted) fittings changed to brass barbs, cleaned and tested - $95 + S&H
--Weapon MonsterCore, fittings modded, cleaned inside and out, metal prepped for paint, stealth black finish - $105 + S&H
--Weapon MonsterCombo – matched stealth black core and stealth black shroud, with mounting hardware for fans and shrouds. $150 + S&H
Note: All MonsterCores/Shrouds/Combo are subject to availability and may take 14 days when in stock before they can be shipped as they are modded and painted on a per order basis.

MonsterCore with 4 SanAce 120mm fans for size reference:
http://www.cox-internet.com/weapon/i...nstercore2.jpg
MonsterCore with Shroud:
http://www.cox-internet.com/weapon/i...MCD192Weap.jpg
Overall dimensions with shroud and 38mm fans:
330mm (L) x 268mm (W) x 138mm (D) [13.25” (L) x 10.75” (W) x 5.50” (D)]
Core dimensions: 10-3/4” (L) x 10” (W) x 2” (D)
An utterly massive heat exchanger with support for four 120mm fans per side for maximum heat dissipation with low CFM fans – insane heat dissipation with high performance fans.

Available but no time to post full details at the moment:
Weapon 199 Core and Shroud – a bit shorter but also a bit wider than the 302 cores – dual 120mm fan mounting. Pricing will be the same as the 302 cores and shrouds with the same fittings options.

Weapon 342 Core and Shroud – a single pass core for lower restriction – great for systems with smaller pumps. Pricing will be the same as the 302 cores and shrouds with the same fittings options.


Upcoming projects:
Single 120 heatercore and shroud - pricing and product availability to be announced.
WFR1.1 -- so top secret at the moment that I don't even have a clue what is is...

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me (PM or email w3ap0n@gmail.com). If you would like an exact quote, including shipping, please send your street address with zip code and I will send a total including shipping. Thank you for your interest in our cooling gear.

Weapon
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Old 04-02-2005, 04:08 AM   #23 (permalink)
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*Runs and hides and dives into nearest bombshelter*

What did all THAT mean?? Which combo do I want? Wow, really confused now, I'm going to bed. I will try and tackle that mountain of info after a few hours of sleep...
Are his system quiet?

Nights

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Old 04-02-2005, 05:54 AM   #24 (permalink)
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It's not a system, it's just the heatercore and shroud....you provide the 120mm fans although you can get the whole shebang and get a shroud, core, and fans combo for more cash of course. If you wanted a quieter system you'd either put the 120x38mm fans on a fan controller or get weaker ones, but then you'd be hindering performance since that things so thick it needs good fans.

The combo you want is up to you. Dont get scared because theres a ton of text there, just filter through it. Most of it's dimensions and whatnot of the things.

You basically want to look at this part right here:

Quote:
302 Core/Shroud combos
--Weapon 302 Core (unpainted), fittings changed to brass barbs, cleaned and tested w/ shroud (stealth black) and mounting hardware: $65.50 + S&H.

--Weapon 302 Core (stealth black) w/ shroud (stealth black) including all mounting hardware (for fans and shroud) - $75 + S&H

--Weapon 302 Core w/shroud, two San Ace 120mm fans (103cfm each), wire fan grills and all mounting hardware, assembled and tested = $91.00 + S&H. San Ace SOLD OUT again.)

--Weapon 302 Core w/shroud, two Delta VHE 120mm fans (129cfm each), wire fan grills and all mounting hardware, assembled and tested = $84.00 + S&H. (subject to fan availability - currently in stock)
Unless you wanted something like this:





But that thing is basically overkill plus those are 4 120mm fans lol, so it's friggen HUGE, no way you're getting that in your case short of replacing a side panel with that pretty much, also 4 120mm fans would be somewhat loud.

Basically though this is all you need:

Quote:
--Weapon 302 Core (stealth black) w/ shroud (stealth black) including all mounting hardware (for fans and shroud) - $75 + S&H
The unpainted heatercore (looks all copper and like it was just pulled out the trash ) is $65
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Old 04-02-2005, 12:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Hi,
How many 120 mm fans will I need for the Weapon 302?
>> Here << is a quiet looking fan, will it do the job well enough?

Now there are a few ways I have brainstormed to go around putting this stuff in the case (>> Lian Li "PC-75" <<), I have drawn a horribly sloppy Paint file of what I thought might work in the case. Where I have the pump and weapon 302 "??"-ed, I put arrows where they could be moved to, if the original place was not good. For the pump (or the radiator, if it would fit, I don't have any idea to what size the 302 is compared to anything) it could go in the dead space above the PSU, in front of the 80 mm fans I will be placing there. Is it a BAD idea to put water over the PSU? And then have the 302 or pump in the middle space in between the CD/DVD drives and PSU.



I fear that you will say that it is not such a great idea because having it up top (while convinent) requires more tubing, which equals a loss of pressure over all. What do you think?

Thank you very much,

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Old 04-02-2005, 04:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Err, excuse the spelling, Weapoon 302**
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Old 04-02-2005, 05:04 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I believe, Nubius can correct if I'm wrong, the WeaponCore uses two 120mm fans.

All right, I think I've figured out your diagram. In my opinion, you should try to mount the reservoir in the same little area as the pump if you can. That'll give your pump less work and increase waterflow, and the 80mm fan up there will help cool down those parts. Then have the heatercore mounted and modded to the side of the case where you have it drawn. And then just run your tubing through the CPU and GPU blocks.

Having the reservoir all the way down there means you'll have to stretch your tubing all the way from the GPU to it, and then all the way up to the pump. All that accomplishes is a lot of wasted pump work in my opinion.

Nubius - Even with what maxxx said, I don't really want the acetal even if it doesn't crack. Copper just seems more reliable plus I'd rather have a pretty heavy, sturdy feeling block that something with some cheap feeling plastic. I'd love the chrome MAZE4 but it's wasted money and copper is fine.
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Old 04-02-2005, 05:29 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
I'd love the chrome MAZE4 but it's wasted money and copper is fine.
Oh I 100% hear ya there man...that thing looks sooooo SEXAAAAY, but yeah another $25 bucks for that top I can't afford....I could perhaps, but yeah don't care to, besides I don't have a flashy side panel with window, lights and whatnot, so you'd never see it. But yeah brass is the way to go for the tops, gives me better security and peace of mind honestly.

Yan - I made it so the links work up in that long information post so you can click on the pics to see what it looks like. That has all the measurements of the 302 core and shroud so you should write those down, draw it on paper to get an idea of how big it is. Heres the pic



Yes those are 2 120mm fans. That fan you linked is too small, it's 25mm thickness, go for 38mm thickness

As far as the reservoir goes, the common suggested theme for placement is to have it at the highest point possible to allow gravity to do it's work and water flow to the pump easily, this also allows for the air bubbles to get up the to reservoir for easier bleeding of the system (bleeding simply means running it until the air bubbles are out)

However, gaara is correct to in that another option is to have the reservoir as close to the pump as possible so that there is no shortage whatsoever of the water flow to the pump because you DO NOT want the pump ever to run without it being flooded with water.

If you had the reservoir at the bottom with only an inch or two to the pump that would be ideal, except it may take a little longer to bleed the system, and if it wasn't in a bay it might also wind up being a little harder to refill.

You could try it like this:



Heatercore is the top, green is the reservoir, blue circle the pump, arrows is the water directional flow.

Alternatively you could try it like this, BUT you'd probably need to customize the feet of the case to raise it a little off the floor:



The bottom configuration has a lot less tubing so it'd probably be more effective. The top one does have quite a bit of reach for the tubing, but then again sometimes ya gotta work with what ya got and I've seen numerous setups like that one.
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Old 04-02-2005, 05:54 PM   #29 (permalink)
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The links work now, on your quote!

I like your ideas, but they sparked another of my own, that I could run through you? Maybe I should go for the single 5.25" reservoir, (is that enough? if not I can sacrifice and go for the dual 5.25") and put it in the top 5.25" bay(s), then put the heatercore in the same place as in your 1st image, and the pump (I will look at the pump's dimensions, to see if it fits) above the PSU.

OK, after explaining that, I decided to provide an image anyhow. What do you think?


Now, on your first image, is it just me, or does the flow (directional arrows) not look correct on SOME of the tubing? Just curious!

Thanks in advance

Yan

PS- Sorry the image is so sloppy, I need to be out the door right about 5 minutes ago!
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Old 04-02-2005, 06:27 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Maybe I should go for the single 5.25" reservoir, (is that enough? if not I can sacrifice and go for the dual 5.25")
lol dude, a T-line is just a spare piece of tubing that can be used as a reservoir. Doesn't take much to have a reservoir at all.

Quote:
Now, on your first image, is it just me, or does the flow (directional arrows) not look correct on SOME of the tubing? Just curious!
Nope, it goes Reservoir>Pump>CPU>GPU>Heatercore>Back to reservoir. Could be just because the arrows are overlapping in a couple places, but it's all one fluid circle.

I don't know about putting the pump above the PSU. Although I haven't heard of a pump leaking really compared to all the other parts, the thought of it ever doing it down the road would scare the hell out of me. Water leaking on a component = computer shutting down.

Water leaking on the PSU = potential fire hazard

also I'd try and get the pump below the reservoir even a little bit, just so the water wants to flow down towards it.
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