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Old 12-12-2007, 03:09 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default some newblet OC questions

first off, my system:
cpu: e2180
mobo: msi p6n platinum 650i
graphics card: 8800gts 320mb
ram: 2x 1gb g.skill ddr2 800 pc6400

i ended up losing the mounting bracket for my tuniq tower (dont ask) so im stuck using my stock heatsink and stock paste (was too lazy to remove their stuff, plan on picking up an AF7 soon anway).

current overclock:
cpu is at 3.0 ghz at stock voltage - 300 fsb, 10x multiplier (2.0 stock - 200 x 10)
RAM is at 420fsb atm. system wont POST at 430, and when i set it to 425 it shows up as 420 still(via cpu-z). i had to manually set the timings to 4-4-4-12, but when i did so the fifth timing(?) went from 20->21. i also manually set the voltage to 2.0v. specific RAM module can be seen here Newegg.com - G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail
graphics card is at 655/1055, im pretty sure that's the max - if i raise the memory any higher atitool starts finds errors(instantly, btw), and if i raise the
core clock past 655 i get random lockups, etc.

anyways!
1) what significance does the sb voltage hold in overclocking?
2) what voltages are safe for nb? (up to what point)
3) is an aftermarket nb fan required? my mobo came with one but i didnt bother mounting it (size issue with the tuniq tower -- now eliminated)
4) how safe is 1.5 vcore? i see that generally reccomended as a max.. but is it safe to run a system (provided you have ample cooling) 24/7 at 1.5vcore? or should i go for a lower oc?
5) why cant i get my RAM over 420 fsb?
6) what other RAM timings should i be taking off of auto, and at what value is a good starting point?
7) is it safe to put my RAM voltage above 2.0v(provided i can raise the fsb above 420)? the reccomended voltage (as per newegg specs) is 1.9v-2.0v
8) does running my cpu fsb and ram fsb at 1:1 give me a performance increase? or just less heat?
9) how does FSB VTT Voltage work? all i can find is increasing it stabilizes your system, but I can't find any negative effects to raising it?

thanks for any/all answers
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:26 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: some newblet OC questions

south bridge voltages are generally fairly insignificant to an overclock. the northbridge voltages however can make a substantial difference as the northbridge runs at the same frequency as the FSB. the limit varies from chip to chip. take it in small steps, keep it well cooled and stop when you reach a stable voltage. always search for approximate voltage limits of chipsets and cpus on google. that said you should be safe with perhaps 0.1-0.2v increase.

running synchronous FSB and RAM frequencies doesn't necessarily improve performance. generally overall cpu frequency will govern performance and as long as the memory bandwidth is sufficient you won't see much of a difference in general applications. so prioritise for acheiving a higher cpu clock.

a lot of your questions can't be answered as they depend on your system and how far you are willing to take things. keep everything cool and 'clock away!

it should be noted that overvolting/overclocking components should not be considered "safe". what i mean by this is that there is no guarantee that a component will be able to perform outside it's specified voltage and frequency and in making it do so you take responsibility for what happens. if you have a fair idea of what you are doing it is relatively safe to overclock but you will still shorten the lifespan of your components.

edit: also these days FSB holes seem to be becoming a bigger issue. for some reason boards will have a certain FSB range that is unstable. you can find these by toying around a bit (read as: a lot ) and trying to reach FSBs above where it is apparently unstable, dropping the multiplier helps here too.
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Old 12-12-2007, 03:50 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: some newblet OC questions

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Originally Posted by nitestick View Post
south bridge voltages are generally fairly insignificant to an overclock. the northbridge voltages however can make a substantial difference as the northbridge runs at the same frequency as the FSB. the limit varies from chip to chip. take it in small steps, keep it well cooled and stop when you reach a stable voltage. always search for approximate voltage limits of chipsets and cpus on google. that said you should be safe with perhaps 0.1-0.2v increase.

it should be noted that overvolting/overclocking components should not be considered "safe". what i mean by this is that there is no guarantee that a component will be able to perform outside it's specified voltage and frequency and in making it do so you take responsibility for what happens. if you have a fair idea of what you are doing it is relatively safe to overclock but you will still shorten the lifespan of your components.

edit: also these days FSB holes seem to be becoming a bigger issue. for some reason boards will have a certain FSB range that is unstable. you can find these by toying around a bit (read as: a lot ) and trying to reach FSBs above where it is apparently unstable, dropping the multiplier helps here too.
Thanks for the fast reply! And thanks for the warning, I'm aware I just wanted to get a general opinion on what most people are comfortable with... most guides I find stop after the "basics" and say that the other settings shouldn't be touched until you're more experienced, and leave it at that... leaving much to be desired after you've learned their "basics".

Thanks for the tip about googling reccomended chipset voltages - figured it would be more board by board for some reason(yeah that sounds stupid now).

In your opinion... would raising(a small amount, .05v or .1v) the RAM's voltage above the advertised voltage (in my case 2.0) be something that you would do? Or is that horribly dangerous for the RAM?



edit::: The voltage I wouldn't remember was "FSB VTT Voltage"... does this hold any significance in terms of overclocking? Google says yes, but I can't really find any guide(in laymans terms) that explains it...

From Overclock.net - Asus P5N32-E Overclocking Guide - Overclock.net - Overclocking.net - Robilar
CPU VTT is the most important setting for stable overclocks. The CPU VTT Voltage sets the CPU termination voltage, allowing for a 1.55V maximum. Using this voltage in combination with the CPU VCore voltage setting can greatly enhance the system stability while overclocked. The system memory reference voltage is split between settings, the controller reference voltage and one option each for the two memory channels. In all cases, the base reference voltage can be set to a maximum of .03V over half of the set memory voltage. (Taken from HardOCP)
"In summary, the CPU VTT controls the CPU termination voltage. Based on Kirmie's observations, it reduces the number of false electrical signals by providing a form of "ground" to pull out these false currents. ." (Credit to Kirmie for the find) My experience with this board is that the max setting (1.55) provides the best results. I have not had a single crash or temperature variation as a result.


Is that correct? Just max it out and it increases stability? Sounds iffy to me..

Some other sites I read (that didn't understand what VTT did other than "control the termination voltage for the cpu") saw no temp increases, and maxing it out did nothing harmful.

BTW my motherboard goes by +%, maxing out at +20%... normal?
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: some newblet OC questions

personally, yes it's something i would do. it's all good if you think you can handle things, as long as that's true! parts generally have some leeway and small increases won't kill them except in certain circumstances. keep an eye out to make sure everything is working properly and stable and you should be fine. i'll admit i'm still finding my feet with overclocking DDR2 memory and some of the finer aspects of overclocking with Core 2 processors because i haven't had a chance to do it myself until recently. i'm a bit old school .

extending on what i said before always google specific parts because there may be relevant issues relating to overclocking them. for example with AMDs K8 rev E. processors (it existed on others too but this is just a specific example) you couldn't have a voltage difference of greater than 0.35v between Vcore and 1/2 Vdimm. so when i was using my old memory (BH-5 UTT chips love voltage and can go up to about 4v) i had to keep in mind the difference between Vcore and 0.5xVdimm to avoid damaging the processor.
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Old 12-12-2007, 04:52 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: some newblet OC questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitestick View Post
extending on what i said before always google specific parts because there may be relevant issues relating to overclocking them. for example with AMDs K8 rev E. processors (it existed on others too but this is just a specific example) you couldn't have a voltage difference of greater than 0.35v between Vcore and 1/2 Vdimm. so when i was using my old memory (BH-5 UTT chips love voltage and can go up to about 4v) i had to keep in mind the difference between Vcore and 0.5xVdimm to avoid damaging the processor.
Ouch, haha. That sounds like fun.

Been snooping around trying to find info about VTT(I editted my last post while you were replying)... Heres one from MSI's site : VTT FSB Voltage : To ensure every core device has close operating voltage, the VTT FSB Voltage must go up as well. The value should not be high, or it will cause bed effect.

Not exactly sure what the "bed effect" is... I'm thinking they meant bad effect... So which is it? Some sites I've seen reccomend straight maxing it out, while some leave it at modest values (+2%, +4%, etc), and some don't even touch it!


MSI P6N SLI PLATINUM & E4300
FSB VTT Voltage-I read that if you go to 20% it stabilizes your rig when
you overclock, so I set it and it worked great.
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Old 12-12-2007, 01:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: some newblet OC questions

I've already run 1.56 through an e2180. Don't go above 1.6. These things can take alot of voltage with the right cooling of course.
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Old 12-12-2007, 05:51 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: some newblet OC questions

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I've already run 1.56 through an e2180. Don't go above 1.6. These things can take alot of voltage with the right cooling of course.
Okay, awesome got comp to 3dmark06 at 3.5ghz@1.5v (only voltage i touched) ... temps were iffy with stocker cooler though! wish christmas was over so i could order my af7!!!


bump @ the VTT question!

What do the "Spread Spectrum" options do? A lot of guides for my mobo say that disabling them helps with overclocking.
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Old 12-15-2007, 02:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: some newblet OC questions

I'm not familiar with MSI boards, but any good MB won't need a boost at all while running a e2180. You definitely won't go anywhere above 380 FSB with it. Just voltage to the cpu is all you need. MB's will need an increase to the NB only when running high FSB.
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