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Old 11-24-2008, 06:57 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Peter.Cort Overclocking Thread!!! (56K Beware)

dude, regardless of the hype, deneb/shanghai is gonna be a killer proc. Whether it be a conroe/kentsfield killer, yorkie killer, or core i7 killer, that's still to be decided. I think at this point, a step forward is a step forward and that's really what needs to be taken at face value. no doubt its gonna draw tons of hype because with core i7 out everyone's expecting deneb/shanghai to kill core i7, but reality is saying no, but social trends want to say yes. so really AMD is in a jam until they can put out proc's fast enough to compete with core i7/i8/i9 or the next batch of chips.
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Old 11-24-2008, 06:58 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Peter.Cort Overclocking Thread!!! (56K Beware)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puddle Jumper View Post
Myabe I'm wrong but so far it seem like everyone is taking every single bit of info about deneb at face value, which seems to be a bad idea considering the unfounded claims about processor performance AMD has made in the past.
AMD is under new management, and all this info is coming not just from AMD, but the same guys who overclock high end Intel systems and got their hands on core 2's before everybody else.

Yeah before they made have made many claims which didnt end up true....but take this as the cpu version of the hd4800 series.

Hd3xxx came out...it was ok but could have been better. Hd4xxx came out...major competition for nvidia.

same thing, 65nm phenoms came out and didnt do to well. But now 45nm is coming and theyre chnaging the whole cpu game for 2009. And this is good, we all win whether you like Intel or AMD.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:08 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Peter.Cort Overclocking Thread!!! (56K Beware)

I agree that deneb is a step forward, it may even beat i7 in price/performance but I don't see it beating i7 in overall performance which is what I'm primarily interested in. If they release detailed benchmarks for a reputable site (ex anadtech) showing deneb beating i7 than I'll admit I was wrong and go back to the green team, but not before.

Also the benchmarks available of shanghai show a 10-15% over barcelona so I think it is reasonable to assume a similar magnitude of increase for deneb over agena. That is a very impressive improvement for a die shrink, it just may not be enough to beat i7.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:16 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Peter.Cort Overclocking Thread!!! (56K Beware)

I dont see deneb beating core i7 as of now, but in terms of price vs performance it does.

I mean from what ive seen you can get 24K with a deneb @ 4ghz and 4870X2. core i7 can get a slightly higher score at 3.9ghz, but its much more expensive and still in the 24K reigon.

Would you pay much more for a minimal speed improvement??

I know i wouldint, id get the better value.

So even if deneb is slightly slower, its still cheaper.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:19 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Peter.Cort Overclocking Thread!!! (56K Beware)

well if were talking 100mhz for like a couple hundred bucks, then no, but I feel like that won't be the case.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:26 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Peter.Cort Overclocking Thread!!! (56K Beware)

Deneb will probably hit the shelves at or around $300, guess how much the i7 920 costs? $300. It beats out more expensive Intel quads from the previous generation. So unless AMD can release a Quad under $300 that competes well against or beats the 920 then I would say they have an up hill battle.

I won't deny that Deneb is a big improvement, it is. Good for them. But I think that K10 is a flawed architecture. I think AMD wont be really competitive until Fusion comes out. That has a lot of potential in my eyes, but K10 just can't beat corei7 from where I am looking.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:31 PM   #157 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Peter.Cort Overclocking Thread!!! (56K Beware)

I think deneb will cost around $250.

Also, factor in the fact that with deneb you can use ddr2 and $150 am2+ boards. How much do nehalem supported boards and ddr3 cost??

And how about the new coolers?

Now tell me which is the better value.

K10 is not flawed, it just wasnt meant for 65nm. And i hope you did take a look at the stuff i posted earlier and see just how close deneb came to core i7, using the same gpu and a difference of 100mhz. And this is going againts intels latest, not the old stuff.

A difference of 500 points in 3dmark06. I dunno that sounds pretty good for a "flawed" architecture.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:36 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Peter.Cort Overclocking Thread!!! (56K Beware)

If k10 at 45nm can't compete well on a performance basis with corei7 then yes I think it is flawed.

I'm not going to believe any benchmarks either way until that NDA is raised and I get verification. I jumped the boat last time and went in supporting Agena and had to eat my words. AMD has to prove to me that Deneb is for real.

Core i7's benchmarks were a lot more credible than any of the ones you have for Deneb, and they showed i7 getting twice the performance in some games as Agena, Deneb will be about 15% faster, so that means corei7 is 85% faster in some cases than Deneb. Unless a Deneb build cost 15% what a corei7 build does, I don't think it is much of a deal.
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Old 11-24-2008, 07:37 PM   #159 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Peter.Cort Overclocking Thread!!! (56K Beware)

Yes x58's cost more than am2+ boards, but there are no am2+ boards that support sli and crossfire. DDR3 isn't that expensive anymore and the massive bandwidth it can achieve in tri channel is worth it in my opinion. They are planning on releasing lga1366 mounting brackets for some of the current coolers like the TRUE so the upgrade cost on those should be minimal.
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Old 11-24-2008, 08:49 PM   #160 (permalink)
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Default Re: Official Peter.Cort Overclocking Thread!!! (56K Beware)

Zmatt you were on the band wagon for Phenom?!!!

Woah..

Its been said time and time again. We can only wait until Deneb is actually released till we can state whether Core i7 is superior or inferior.

Maybe Core i7 will be great for video editing, super pi, and 3D Mark 06. But with Fusion AMD could have Intel beat, when it comes to gaming. Once again though, we should stop making wild accusations. Like Deneb being released @$250. Lets just chill and wait it out.
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