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Old 01-25-2006, 06:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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How is the Ultra? I've heard some bad thing about it on these forums but I can't find to many bad reviews. How is working for you?
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Old 01-25-2006, 06:48 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I can answer your question better. Most of the newer cards such as the 7800s have a 90nm process chip. W/ that they can either lower the speeds or do what theyve been doing, raise the speeds and it will be even slower than the 130(?)nm process gpu that you have. Also, i believe the X1900XT has a core clock of 650mhz.
Er...Fabrication size won't have any bearing on performance, the only difference between a 130nm core and a 90nm core would be power specifications and production cost

And just for the record 7800s use a 110nm wafer as far as I am aware and only the x1800 and x1900 cards have 90nm fabrication processes

As for the original question, the big difference is memory interface...9600XT is using 128bit memory whereas 6800s and beyond will be using 256bit memory
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Old 01-25-2006, 07:20 PM   #13 (permalink)
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How is the Ultra? I've heard some bad thing about it on these forums but I can't find to many bad reviews. How is working for you?
As obvious from my sig im OCing heavily w/out loss of power. Its holding up really well for only spending 25 on it
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Er...Fabrication size won't have any bearing on performance, the only difference between a 130nm core and a 90nm core would be power specifications and production cost
But cant a 90nm core reach higher speeds do to not heating up as bad then a 130nm? Thats where i was going w/ that one.
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Old 01-25-2006, 07:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally posted by P.P. Mguire
But cant a 90nm core reach higher speeds do to not heating up as bad then a 130nm? Thats where i was going w/ that one.
Totally what I was thinking... smaller process sizes require less power, which means less temperature, right?

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Old 01-25-2006, 07:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally posted by P.P. Mguire

EDIT: Are you sure its an R-360 chip? My 9800XT is using a R-360 chip.
bah, my mistake, it's an RV-360 chip.

Whatever, I'm gonna sell this thing on eBay to some pc-ignorant shmuck for $200 canadian (pardon the evilness) and go back to my TNT2 for a while. Put that money towards a new, nvidia+amd super system, thanks for the infoz.
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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But cant a 90nm core reach higher speeds do to not heating up as bad then a 130nm? Thats where i was going w/ that one.
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Totally what I was thinking... smaller process sizes require less power, which means less temperature, right?
Not neccesarily, you have to remember when you decrease the fabrication size not only are you decreasing the transitor size but also the insulation on the transitor itself. In other words, the smaller transitors themselves may use less power but inadaquent insulation may lead to current "leaking" thus making a core less efficent in terms of power consumption and in turn less efficent in terms of thermal threshold. Take the Prescott for example, it was the first 90nm fabrication to hit the market but the architecture had issues with the transitors and they ended up running at much higher temperatures than the 130nm Northwoods at upwards of 70C

As for a chip maintaining higher clock frequencies, again this can go either way. While it is true that the transitors don't require as much voltage to operate properly, this also limits how vcore you can push through the core itself. 130nm Newcastle and Clawhammer cores will probably handle higher voltage better than the newer Venice and Winchester cores can simply because of again the better insulation and larger transitor being able to handle more resistance

If you want another example, look back to when the Winchester cores first surfaced. They were only availible up to 3500+ specifications because the current architecture couldn't handle high frequencies very well at low voltages without stability issues, so the 4000s and FXs stayed with the Clawhammer until RevE Venice and San Diego cores were released that fixed this problem

Fabrication size really only has huge implications on production costs as I said, remember back when the x800XL was so cheap compared to other GPUs in the same range? It was based on a 110nm die whereas all other cores were still using 130nm
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Guess i got owned. Sounded good though lol Dude why are you selling your 9600XT? 200 isnt much toward a Canadian computer.....
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Old 01-25-2006, 09:58 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i thought the cards with 110nm manufacturing process are hotter than the 90nm process but the 110nm can oc farther? i can't remember where i read that. im just wondering
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Old 01-25-2006, 10:33 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally posted by P.P. Mguire
Guess i got owned. Sounded good though lol Dude why are you selling your 9600XT? 200 isnt much toward a Canadian computer.....
of course it is. I can get this system with these specs:


AMD Opteron 144 Processor S939 Venus 1.8GHZ 1MB L2 Cache 90NM

Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLI ATX S939 NFORCE4 SLI DDR 2PCI-E16 SATA2

EVGA E-GEFORCE 6800GS SLI 256MB 256BIT GDDR3 PCI-E

Maxtor 100GB 7200RPM 8MB SATA

Black PHANTOM CS601BK ATX CASE 4X5.25 2X3.5 4X3.5INT 480W

Mushkin PC3200 Dual Channel 1GB 2X512MB DDR400


for about $1000 canadian

brand new btw and non-pre-built
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Old 01-25-2006, 10:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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200<1000......My point clear.
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