BennyV04988
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when?!
apokalipse said:no, I did mean silicon-germanium transistors. IBM and AMD are developing them together.
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5982887.html
although yes, AMD may use Nickel Silicide aswell (which I admit I didn't know before).
apokalipse said:less power consumption. that's what I mean by efficiency.
plus there's the lower production costs.
apokalipse said:can you say that for certain?
yes, current AM2 CPU's are not that great. but they are AMD's first chips to use DDR2. and their memory controller really needs improving.
apokalipse said:I don't know exactly how, since I don't work for AMD. but it will involve changing the architecture to process more instructions/clock cycle, like they did from K7 to K8. K8 chips don't need as high frequencies to get the same performance as K7 chips.
apokalipse said:I can't say for certain they will be used on K8L, but I'd say it's pretty likely IMO.
http://www.hi-techreviews.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=7156
It seems that all AM2 CPUs were outfitted with a support for Reverse-HyperThreading, an architectural change which enables software to think that it is working on a single-core alone. By combining two cores, the company has been able to produce the six IPC "core" that will go head to head against four IPC "core" from Conroe/Merom/WoodCrest combo.
It seems that in certain cases, even an old AMD Athlon 64 3800+ can wipe the floor with Core 2 Duo E6300 CPU.
As we all know - the results from E6700 and X6800 against FX-62 will be nice, but the real fight with AMD is the one for the Conroe with 2MB of L2 cache. The system memory avoidance technology is working flawlessly on a 4MB cache model, but the case is reversed in the two Meg cache variant, especially in cache-hit sensitive apps, such as games.
In single-treaded apps, Core 2 Duo is expected to struggle against Reverse HyperThreading CPUs, which work at higher clock frequencies and produce higher instruction per clock ratios (IPC).
AMDs Reverse-HT is a dynamic technology, and with Microsoft's Windows update and a new processor driver, the driver will copy the graphics drivers of today's 3D accelerators. The driver will detect the app, see if it is multithreaded or not and turn the ReverseHT on, or leave it off.
I was incorrect in my last post when I said X2 3800+ @ 2.0Ghz + RHT = 4.0Ghz A64. Some of the smarter people on XS have said that the increase is not 100%, so it won't be 4.0Ghz. It seems correct, as we have seen Dual Core CPUs in Dual-Core supporting games not perform like they were twice their clockspeed. A X2 3800+ was benchmarked in Quake 4, and I would guess that it was performing like a 3.2 to 3.4Ghz Athlon 64. So a 66% (2/3) performance increase, maybe?
yeah, I do disagree about the DDR-2 memory controller being "surprisingly robust" but I posted the article to show you that I'm not the only one who thinks SiGe will probabbly be used by AMD. the DDR2 memory controller really needs improving.Infomatic said:Well, you say below that you can't say for certain whether AMD will be using SiGe in K8L, but that its "pretty likely." Similarly, I am also pretty sure that the performance will not increase. Please don't blame it on the memory controller, from the same source as your SiGe information came from, it also reports that AMD included, in AMD, "a surprisingly robust DDR-2 controller with an improved Crossbar and Arbitrator." If you wish me to take that website as your source on SiGe, then you should admit this also.
well I did not say that AMD will or won't benefit from DDR2 even with an improved DDR2 memory controller (which they do need regardless), maybe it will benefit, maybe it won't. we'll just have to see. my point was that you can't say anything for certain.Infomatic said:Plus, unlike SiGe, we have seem the performance of DDR2 on AM2. It has not been impressive. To say that "oh well, whatever, they'll improve it later on" is a sad excuse. You people wanted to wait to see how DDR2 performed on the "Final Edition" processors, and when it didn't improve, this excuse of the faulty memory controller was an easy escape. But back on topic, we have seen the performance of DDR2. As has been said repeatedly before, Athlon 64 processors do not benefit from the additional bandwidth that DDR2 provides. And since even the fastest DDR2 performance (nothing to do with the processor) is not much better than DDR performance, there won't be any improvements on that front either.
we can know the basic changesK7 to K8. And K8 to K8L. See a discrepancy? K8L is an evolution, not a revolution. You don't have to work for AMD to know that changes in K8L. Even I know about them, and I don't care much for K8L. From what I've seen, I can assure you that other than the additional complex decoder, there will be nothing more to help AMD on clock efficiency.
well, AMD is co-developing them with IBM. and we have seen a big success from IBM while using them (remember that 500GHZ chip?)Infomatic said:I wouldn't go so far as "pretty likely" since Nickel Silicide is a much easier alternative, but a possibility, yes.