Creative sound vs. the rest

[Chankama]

Here we go. What wikipedia think an audiophile should be.. It just amazes me how these guys have *every* article I am interested in..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiophile

See if u guys agree with what this says.. Considering anyone can edit this information :-\..

It's funny how some very smart audio engineers who get their PhD and go work and Harmon Kardon might not truely appreciate music when they are listening to it. They can "listen" to the music in their oscilloscopes.. But perhaps not through their ears..

Similarly, a lot of people who say they know everything there is to know about music don't know the first thing about designing any of the equipment or even basic sound theory that you might learn in a Physics 101 course in university. They make ok audio "car mechanics", but very shitty audio "engineers".

So what is really an audiophile? I don't know. All I know is that I am not one. lol..

 

[DJ-CHRIS]

Some audiophiles use, rather than a stereo power amplifier, two monaural amps, one per channel, in "monoblock" configuration. Some go further and use multiple amplifiers per speaker to drive the woofer, midrange, tweeter, and so on. However, there are those who claim advantages in the use of "integrated amplifiers" that combine these functions in a single box, arguing on the basis of an appeal to minimalism.

Next studio speakers will be seperate amps for low and high (sub going in later) as well as their monoblocks

On the other hand, there are others who use solid-state amplifiers rated at over 1000 watts RMS" per channel.

DJ's, yes. Audiophiles that I have seen dont use that powerful of stuff.





And personally my pet peeve is Digital to Analog conversions and vice versa, it's one or the other and no conversions

If im using a digital amp, I want optical out on cd player, fully digital mixer and digital in's on the amp.

 

[EricB]

Here we go. What wikipedia think an audiophile should be.. It just amazes me how these guys have *every* article I am interested in..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audiophile

See if u guys agree with what this says.. Considering anyone can edit this information :-\..

It's funny how some very smart audio engineers who get their PhD and go work and Harmon Kardon might not truely appreciate music when they are listening to it. They can "listen" to the music in their oscilloscopes.. But perhaps not through their ears..

I can stand the PhD guy myself. he tries to talk too technical. you will ask him a question he will use all of these big words and describe amp designs and stuff, but he will never answer your questions.

he isn't an audiophile. he's a geek

here a picture of my old Mackie M-2600 this was when I was experimenting on my subwoofer box design to get the deepest extension. here it was in a banpass set up with different port configurations. it hit harder like this but it didn't go as deep.

 

[Crysalis]

Concerning the sound card thing, EricB nailed it. Theres nothing more to it.... really.. .there isn't. HA


With the audiophile issue, I would NEVER consider an DJ and audiophile. I would, however, consider an audiophile becoming a DJ. I'm not a "DJ h8ta"... don't get me wrong. DJ's are cool and I dont know if I could ever do some of the stuff they do.

Heres my take:

Most DJ's run around with 1K in turntables, 600-700$ Mixer, Thousands in music, 100+$ headphones and CD players will run at least 500$ each.

Alright... if you are trying to say that your equipment isn't cheap, then take a look at audiophile equipment. Take a quick tour of a recording studio. You said your mixer is $600-700. That would be the equivalent to the weekly PAYMENT of a studio "mixer". A recording studio's console normally runs around 75k-100k. Thats the cheap ones. Take a look at NEVE consoles. Do you know how many they sell a year? Two or three. They are handbuilt. They can cost up to 1 million dollars. Yes, MILLION. 6 zeros, not two. Not trying to be like "Hey look at us and our money". NO.... recording studio's LOSE money. If you can run a recording studio that makes money, then you are probably the first in the world. Studio's don't make the money... the record company does and pays the studio a miniscule portion of their income. I'm currently working in a studio that the electrical bill alone is three or four thousand dollars a month. In two months, a studio has a DJ beat just with the bills alone. I hope that paints a small picture of what a recording engineer does. Oh... if something breaks... theres no returns/refunds nor do you "buy a new one". If you are an engineer, you know your gear INSIDE and out. You should have electronics knowledge so that you can take that blown transistor out and resolder it back into the circuit board. Theres no such thing as buying a new one... you dont have the money... you paid half a million dollars for ONE piece of your studio... let alone the rest. Not putting down DJ's, but there is quite a difference in knowledge here. I am by far not even close to being that good... YET. I'm constantly studying and finding new ways of doing things. I'm still learning. If an engineer says he knows it all, he knows nothing.

EricB hit on the nose again with the PhD thing. Yes they may know the technical, but do they know practical. One of the most famous "blunders" in tech vs practical is an X-Y mic setup. This setup calls for two matching mics (overhead condensors) 180º apart with one facing left and the other to the right. Now, the people with the PhD will get out the protractor and get them to line up to 180º. The practical engineer won't care! If it sounds good, then keep it. That is what miking is about. Try it out... if it sounds cool, use it! Is anyone going to know that the overhead drum mics on tracks 8-9 on reel 2 time 24:30:45 are 180º apart to maximize the use of the polar patterns in the microphones? NO... WHO CARES.

About the loudness with DJ vs audiophile. DJ's normally use their system as a PA. Audiophiles are in a small dead silent room with foam insulator on the wall in the perfect pattern. The room is silent. You don't need 1,000 watts. In fact, 500 is more than enough. If you need more, then you are doing something way out of line. You obviously aren't maximizing head room on each track to its fullest potential during recording and you are also not paying attention to details. You just wanna jam to some loud music. If your a DJ, awesome if you got 2,000 watts... thats great. If your an engineer and you've got 2,000 watts, your a moron who shouldn't even step foot in a control room.

I could go on and on and on, but I really need to get some sleep.

Again, i'm NOT against DJ's. They are awesome! Although, they should NEVER... EVER be matched with an audiophile/engineer.

I might post more later... GOOD NIGHT!

 

[EricB]

To steal a quote from you

*standing ovation*

BRAVO BRAVO! ENCORE ENCORE!!

*APPLAUSE*

 

[Chankama]

Oyy.... you guys don't give enough respect to DJs do you? . I know I know, no one said anything bad straight out. But the way it's written it sounds like:

DJ: "Me hulk. Give me sound!!.. More sound!!" :-\

Anyways, the way I see it, everyone has different roles (based purely on the content of your posts).

The PhD guys - design the stuff based on information they receive from audio enthusiasts. Might not necessarily get it right, since they themselves might not be the users and might not know what the hell they want. Same thing happens in software, game systems, clothes, cars, etc. etc. etc.

The audio engineers - not knowledgable enough technically to design things. But know basic electronics (perhaps at the undergrad or college level) to "repair" things, know a lot about sound quality, can setup equipment, etc.

DJ - good ear for sound, know how to put stuff together, don't know much about electronics (if you do, they you are not just a DJ), etc.

Sounds about right? ..

So if I may use an analogy:

PhD guys = car designers
Audio engineers = car mechanics, car drivers
DJs = professional car drivers

And as for the ever important question of audiophile.. Well.. Still not sure where that fits.. :-\.. I would imagine it fits with "anyone who loves quality music"..

But, meh, you guys are the audiophiles. My computer still has a AC97 ..

 

[EricB]

Oyy.... you guys don't give enough respect to DJs do you? . I know I know, no one said anything bad straight out. But the way it's written it sounds like:

DJ: "Me hulk. Give me sound!!.. More sound!!" :-\

Anyways, the way I see it, everyone has different roles (based purely on the content of your posts).

The PhD guys - design the stuff based on information they receive from audio enthusiasts. Might not necessarily get it right, since they themselves might not be the users and might not know what the hell they want. Same thing happens in software, game systems, clothes, cars, etc. etc. etc.

The audio engineers - not knowledgable enough technically to design things. But know basic electronics (perhaps at the undergrad or college level) to "repair" things, know a lot about sound quality, can setup equipment, etc.

DJ - good ear for sound, know how to put stuff together, don't know much about electronics (if you do, they you are not just a DJ), etc.

Sounds about right? ..

So if I may use an analogy:

PhD guys = car designers
Audio engineers = car mechanics, car drivers
DJs = professional car drivers

And as for the ever important question of audiophile.. Well.. Still not sure where that fits.. :-\.. I would imagine it fits with "anyone who loves quality music"..

But, meh, you guys are the audiophiles. My computer still has a AC97 ..

The PhD guys - design the stuff based on information they receive from audio enthusiasts. Might not necessarily get it right, since they themselves might not be the users and might not know what the hell they want. they don't know how to apply paper to real world use

The audio engineers - Can design things up to a certain point. know basic electronics (perhaps at the undergrad or college level) to "repair" things, know a lot about sound quality, can setup equipment, etc. great ear for sound

DJ - they put the music out there, know how to put stuff together, don't know much about electronics (if you do, they you are not just a DJ), etc.

 

[FoxyLoxy]

Huh, I have seen enormous consoles of little sliders and stuff for audio and I would never consider myself an audiophile if those guys are them. I didnt understand the one we had in our video room in HS. I got respect for ya guys. But that expensive stuff is just too much for me. A Creative Platinum is good enough as I listen to it on some decent 40$ headphones and the stereo hooked up with a PS2 optical into a probly crappy 200$ tuner and a few hundred bucks in speakers, but its enough for me. I got enough hobbies to worry that not all my music is 320.

 

[Apokalipse]

for most people, it doesn't really matter.
"normal" people will just get a sound card, and if it sounds good, they will keep it.
Creative is very successful, mainly because their cards are so available, and compatibility is almost a non-issue. for most people, they "just work" and that's all that is important

 

[Harper]

Creative Labs is much better that the AC 97 chipset that i have been on motherboards.
My motherboard on my main computer comes with a AC 97 6-channel sound. I find that i get free back from it when I use my computer.
Eg. I move my mouse, I hear a buzzing noise going along with the mouse movement.
Yes, it strange, but it happen. I find that i am normally reinstalling my AC 97 drivers to sort this problem out. Only to have the same problem come back in about 6 week time.

Anyways, I find me Creative Labs SB Live 5.1 DE Sound Card.
Firstly, the sounds is much much much better.
Secondly, I am not getting that feed back sound.

The only down fall that I have with creative is that their drivers can be terribly fussy.

For the average job to the computer enuthusist, CREATIVE LABS are the best sound card out there.
UNLESS......
I am sound one that i trying to do some thing with music or sound on a semi-professional or professional level, then I would be suggesting that they look at Yamaha for their sound cards as they are more specialised. However all the sound card there have a specialised purpose. That purpose is a little bit more than to just sound better.
Plus when you are about to spend about AU$900 onwards on just sound card, then you would be wanting to have some specialised need for it. And not just blow it away just because "It's just better"
Basically, if I was going to be getting one of these better sound cards, I would be expecting that I am hooking it up to some sort of musicail intrument, Sound Mixing board, and not just up to a set of Logitech 6.1 gaming speakers.

Yamaha (and some of the other professional quality sound card manufacturers) don't even like me selling their products as they are rather specialised.
Firstly, they want to make sure that thier customer gets the right sound card for thier application.
Secoundly, they do not want to see their product prostituted at a cheap-$0-margin like just about every other IT product that is on the market.
If you are just going to get yourself a one of those hi-end sound card just so you can play UT2kX, then you are F***ing idiot.
In fact, there is a good chance the sound card might not even work on UT2kX.
I have a freind who did this.... yes, he's F***ing Idiot
(BTW, he did not buy it from me, nor did be speak to me about it before purchasing it)

As for some of the other manufacturers on a SOHO enviroment, I can not say that have been impressed with them at all. If it's not getting updated driver issues, it the fact that they just sound shit.