Windows 7 Milestone 3 Build 6801 Review
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DopePhizh
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I Know Its Pre-beta But Can You Feel The Minwin-ish Kernel
CalcProgrammer1
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That's what really confuses me. I know there aren't any 64 bit drivers, but there are 32 bit. Netgear says they only work on XP and that the card is unsupported in Vista, but Vista 32 recognizes and installs the XP drivers and the card works. HOWEVER, Windows 7 32 (6801) sees the drivers, installs the drivers, the card shows up and detects when it is connected, etc. The only thing it can't do is receive packets, so it never establishes a connection. This is with the exact same driver. Probably a flaw in the Pre-Beta kernel or something, if it's just a bug, big deal, it's pre-beta, that's to be expected, hopefully it'll work come the beta release.
So if that's the case, is Vista then backwards-compatible with equivalent (32/64 bit) XP drivers?
Some XP Drivers for 32 Bit are compatible with Vista. I have used several myself. But for simple things like Audio and modem. Never for anything major like a Video Card or chipset.
The XP X64 Drivers i highly doubt since XP X64 was based off of Server 03 than XP itself and therefor the drivers would be more based off of that architecture.
So yes some drivers should work. If they dont then i would suspect that the change in the kernel that has been done already and the more changes to come might not ever get it to work. Since the kernel itself is being affected the most. It is being majorly condensed to give Win7 a more sleek feel and use. It should be even smaller and faster than XP's when done.
So to say that the driver will work with Win7 at any point is only a far fetched guess.
The XP X64 Drivers i highly doubt since XP X64 was based off of Server 03 than XP itself and therefor the drivers would be more based off of that architecture.
So yes some drivers should work. If they dont then i would suspect that the change in the kernel that has been done already and the more changes to come might not ever get it to work. Since the kernel itself is being affected the most. It is being majorly condensed to give Win7 a more sleek feel and use. It should be even smaller and faster than XP's when done.
So to say that the driver will work with Win7 at any point is only a far fetched guess.
CalcProgrammer1
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Sorry to revive my rant, but look what I found still being sold:
Newegg.com - NETGEAR FA311 10/ 100Mbps PCI Network Interface Card 1 x RJ45 - Network Interface Cards
Netgear - FA311 - 10100Mbps PCI Network Interface Card (NIC) at TigerDirect.com
Yeah. That's right. FA311, my unsupported "legacy" product.
If it's still being marketed, especially at $17, they should definitely get some programmers working on a 64 bit driver! I accepted their "legacy" response as lame but true, but apparently it's just flat out ignorance at this point. I'm never buying another Netgear product again.
Newegg.com - NETGEAR FA311 10/ 100Mbps PCI Network Interface Card 1 x RJ45 - Network Interface Cards
Netgear - FA311 - 10100Mbps PCI Network Interface Card (NIC) at TigerDirect.com
Yeah. That's right. FA311, my unsupported "legacy" product.
If it's still being marketed, especially at $17, they should definitely get some programmers working on a 64 bit driver! I accepted their "legacy" response as lame but true, but apparently it's just flat out ignorance at this point. I'm never buying another Netgear product again.
Alright you want me to continue with my speech? Jsut cause the product is sold doesnt mean anything. Up till just earlier this year Microsoft was still issuing serials for Windows 3.11 for Workgroups. Does that mean that i should gripe cause my hardware doesnt work on it?
I can almost bet that those are old stock that the company cleaned out to make room for the new stuff.
Yet again i say about the whole price thing. You say $17? A new card goes for what? I see one for $23. I see others for various prices. Now you make a profit of what? 2-5% on those old cards while making 20-30% on the newer ones. Cause the cost is less for the chips, resistors and all that used to make them, along with all the other stuff that goes into it. Yet at the same time back when your card came out everything was more expensive. So they did not make as much. So that is why they are making less in profit now on that card compared to the newer cards out there.
Again you are only looking at this from a single point of view. Yours. So let me go even further for you.
Now lets look at the benefit of it all.
Your benefit of the drivers - you get to use the card in the OS of choice. Great. You get everything you want.
What does the company get out of it? They have to spend money and get nothing!!
Now before you gripe let me explain. I say they have to spend money cause it will cost them money to make the drivers. They will have to spend money on a coder to create the driver or port them over or whatever. Now there is money spent on thier salary. Now take that and extend it. Cause there has to be a testing phase. Cant release the driver without testing it. What if it doesnt work? What if there are bugs?
So not only do they have to test it but they have to keep that person on that task for long enough to make sure that the drivers are fully functional and operate with all the hardware configurations there are in the world.
Now i still dont see where their benefit is for the company. Cause there is NO repeat business. Since you have a card that works why would you buy another? They got their money from you years ago. So that doesnt count today. That counted back when you bought the card. Not anymore.
So now they have spent Thousands of $$ making these drivers and got no repeat business from it, no new customers cause people already have the product. And even if the card does get recommended to others they are making a very minimal profit from it.
So now you tell me if you were the owner of this company where is your benefit for spending all that money? Where is your benefit of creating those drivers?
I am sorry Calc but seriously it is a petty gripe you have. Cause it only benefits you. I have shown several times now why they wont do it. This has to be the 3rd or 4th time already explaining about the business end of it and yet you still think you are the one being on the short end of the stick. Yet i just showed you a even better example on how the company would lose Thousands of dollars just to make your drivers.
Now this part of the discussion is over. This topic is supposed to be about Windows 7 and the review. It has gone off topic long enough to go on about something that has nothing to do with the original topic. Complaining about Driver support when it is beyond Microsoft's control and i have proved that shows that this is now off topic.
I will ask that this be the end of it. Please stay on the topic of Windows 7. Thank you.
I can almost bet that those are old stock that the company cleaned out to make room for the new stuff.
Yet again i say about the whole price thing. You say $17? A new card goes for what? I see one for $23. I see others for various prices. Now you make a profit of what? 2-5% on those old cards while making 20-30% on the newer ones. Cause the cost is less for the chips, resistors and all that used to make them, along with all the other stuff that goes into it. Yet at the same time back when your card came out everything was more expensive. So they did not make as much. So that is why they are making less in profit now on that card compared to the newer cards out there.
Again you are only looking at this from a single point of view. Yours. So let me go even further for you.
Now lets look at the benefit of it all.
Your benefit of the drivers - you get to use the card in the OS of choice. Great. You get everything you want.
What does the company get out of it? They have to spend money and get nothing!!
Now before you gripe let me explain. I say they have to spend money cause it will cost them money to make the drivers. They will have to spend money on a coder to create the driver or port them over or whatever. Now there is money spent on thier salary. Now take that and extend it. Cause there has to be a testing phase. Cant release the driver without testing it. What if it doesnt work? What if there are bugs?
So not only do they have to test it but they have to keep that person on that task for long enough to make sure that the drivers are fully functional and operate with all the hardware configurations there are in the world.
Now i still dont see where their benefit is for the company. Cause there is NO repeat business. Since you have a card that works why would you buy another? They got their money from you years ago. So that doesnt count today. That counted back when you bought the card. Not anymore.
So now they have spent Thousands of $$ making these drivers and got no repeat business from it, no new customers cause people already have the product. And even if the card does get recommended to others they are making a very minimal profit from it.
So now you tell me if you were the owner of this company where is your benefit for spending all that money? Where is your benefit of creating those drivers?
I am sorry Calc but seriously it is a petty gripe you have. Cause it only benefits you. I have shown several times now why they wont do it. This has to be the 3rd or 4th time already explaining about the business end of it and yet you still think you are the one being on the short end of the stick. Yet i just showed you a even better example on how the company would lose Thousands of dollars just to make your drivers.
Now this part of the discussion is over. This topic is supposed to be about Windows 7 and the review. It has gone off topic long enough to go on about something that has nothing to do with the original topic. Complaining about Driver support when it is beyond Microsoft's control and i have proved that shows that this is now off topic.
I will ask that this be the end of it. Please stay on the topic of Windows 7. Thank you.
C0RR0SIVE
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I am sorta with calc, but at the same time I aint... I have always used a US Robotics dial up modem in my computers, one because windows had default drivers for it that worked nicely, well when Vista was first released it had no support for my modem, so I found an Agere modem, not a good modem, but usable... Plugged that in, then two months later, US Robotics released vista 32bit drivers for my modem. So I plugged the US Robotics back in and went on with life. Well a few months ago I switched to 64bit, guess what, no support for my US Robotics modem... So here I sit praying the Agere worked, and it did, but it did get on my nerves that they couldn't make 64bit drivers for vista, yet they made 32bit... There could be issues with the chip on the modem and 64bit vista which drivers cant fix, who knows, but they have stated that it won't be supported for 64bit vista. Yet they still sell it as there mainstream cheapo modem, I have found it in DOZENS of computers, but do I care? Not really, I can still get online and be happy, I just miss it because it would let me connect at 36k instead of 22k....
But I do hope they have support for it or a new version that is cheap soon... Because when windows 7 comes out... I plan on throwing this Agere away...
But I do hope they have support for it or a new version that is cheap soon... Because when windows 7 comes out... I plan on throwing this Agere away...
CalcProgrammer1
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I'm pretty sure I read on some Microsoft developer forum that all it takes to make a 64 bit driver from a 32 bit one is recompiling the source with 64 bit libraries. That seems like something that would take an experienced in-house developer but 5 minutes to do. It seems that they aren't doing this JUST for the money they'd make from repeat customers buying identical but updated products, not because it is technically difficult to recompile an existing driver.
Funny enough, I popped an ancient D-Link board in and Vista picked it right up without even having to go on Windows Update. This board is a dinosaur, my friend gave it to me for an old Windows 95 machine because the junker he bought at a yard sale didn't work and he took parts out of it. The board isn't even single-chip, it has at least 2 major chips, a lot more complicated than the single-chip solutions we have now, yet it works perfectly in Vista.
By modem, do you mean dial up? I had a Conexant in my Vista box but it didn't find drivers, called it a PCI Simple Communications Controller. I don't care about it since I use an Ethernet connection, so I just took it out. I probably could've gotten it working if I searched for drivers elsewhere.
Funny enough, I popped an ancient D-Link board in and Vista picked it right up without even having to go on Windows Update. This board is a dinosaur, my friend gave it to me for an old Windows 95 machine because the junker he bought at a yard sale didn't work and he took parts out of it. The board isn't even single-chip, it has at least 2 major chips, a lot more complicated than the single-chip solutions we have now, yet it works perfectly in Vista.
By modem, do you mean dial up? I had a Conexant in my Vista box but it didn't find drivers, called it a PCI Simple Communications Controller. I don't care about it since I use an Ethernet connection, so I just took it out. I probably could've gotten it working if I searched for drivers elsewhere.
I have a question, maybe a interesting one at that ?
Currently most of use Intel and AMD cpu's currently ranging with 2-4 cores, and almost 8 cores in just a short bit in late 2009.
Will Microsoft still use the current intel and amd cpu's speed at 2.0 to 3.6ghz for their new OS or are they gonna need are cpu's to be a bit more faster like the stunt they pulled with vista when it was currently being beta and then release to the public that would make most windows customers go WTF is this !?
I used vista trial I got from microsoft late 2007 I liked it quite abit and got the hang of it very quickly like I was almost using windows xp1 or sp2, but the thing that kept me from buying is the **** thing kept eating up my ram resources and hdd space is this was before sp1 came out and no I wasn't using any major software to make it do this.
Simply put I do not want to make a complete overhaul changes in parts like I did with vista only to be angry of how vista operated before.
Currently most of use Intel and AMD cpu's currently ranging with 2-4 cores, and almost 8 cores in just a short bit in late 2009.
Will Microsoft still use the current intel and amd cpu's speed at 2.0 to 3.6ghz for their new OS or are they gonna need are cpu's to be a bit more faster like the stunt they pulled with vista when it was currently being beta and then release to the public that would make most windows customers go WTF is this !?
I used vista trial I got from microsoft late 2007 I liked it quite abit and got the hang of it very quickly like I was almost using windows xp1 or sp2, but the thing that kept me from buying is the **** thing kept eating up my ram resources and hdd space is this was before sp1 came out and no I wasn't using any major software to make it do this.
Simply put I do not want to make a complete overhaul changes in parts like I did with vista only to be angry of how vista operated before.
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